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Interesting...meanwhile in Norway they don't recommend anyone aged 12-64 to get a booster unless they have "Severe underlying conditions" Booster doses The No

Interesting...meanwhile in Norway they don't recommend anyone aged 12-64 to get a booster unless they have "Severe underlying conditions" Booster doses The Norwegian Institute of Public Health (NIPH) recommends that the following groups should take a booster dose of coronavirus vaccine before the coming autumn/ winter season: adults aged 65 years and above adults aged 18-64 years with underlying risk of a severe disease course adolescents aged 12-17 years with severe underlying conditions pregnant women in their second and third trimesters (https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-programme/coronavirus-vaccine/#booster-doses https://www.fhi.no/en/id/vaccines/coronavirus-immunisation-p...)

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cinquemb 4y ago
  At the very least, it can shed light on the various interests at play behind governance polices at multiple levels and between organizations...
- namkt 4y ago
  Because only the US seems to have this guideline. Canada and the EU are not recommending boosters to the general population as pointed out above. It's similar for the flu; afaik, the EU recommends flu shots for ages 60+, not for the general adult population. The US makes a big deal every year on getting flu shots; in corporate media, in shops and outlets, etc. Edit: I stand corrected on the Canadian front; I had old information.
  - 0x486566e7279 4y ago
    Canada is recommending boosters after 5 months from the previous.
  - jlongman 4y ago
    In Quebec, Canada: not at risk, not old and I have a government prompt to get my next free COVID booster sitting in my inbox as well as a government email for the free flu shot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-campaign-fifth-doses-1.6552374 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-c... Health is a provincial domain.
- throwawaylinux 4y ago
  I guess that depends - what do the "trust the experts" crowd do when faced with dueling "experts"? Is the layperson an expert in expert-choosing, or do we need a second layer of experts for that?
  - namkt 4y ago
    This case is simple for me: I'll always follow EU/Canadian healthcare guidelines before US ones by a very long shot, unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense.
    - itsoktocry 4y ago
      >unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense. This isn't simple at all then. You are following one set guidelines unless you see "a problem", then you follow another set. What makes you think you can identify the problems?
      - namkt 4y ago
        The government publishes infection rates at the county level. The county's health department may also have guidelines that differ slightly from the general nation-wide ones. If there is an uptick of infections in the local community and the boosters are recommended there (though still not necessarily at the macroscopic level), then that seems pretty clear to me. But I still concur with OP. I am not an expert, and I don't know how to choose between experts with differing opinions. What I do know is that I trust certain institutions more than others.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    Choose whichever "experts" agree with your own personal beliefs and ridicule the rest.
petard 4y ago
Denmark has the same policy, maybe Sweden too?
- krn1p4n1c 4y ago
  Sweden is still recommending it. https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-material/publikationsarkiv/r/rekommendation-om-vaccination-mot-covid-19/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-materi... Anecdotally, I have 2 friends who are doctors in the kommun and both said the hospitals are short staffed, beds are filling up and they're seeing much more of the RSV/flu/Covid mix coming to the ER from people that are not in the listed "at risk groups". This matches what my best friends wife, who is a pulmonologist in the US, is saying.
  - dghughes 4y ago
    Same for Canada RSV especially but also influenza. I'm not sure about covid. And beds filling with those is bad since that doesn't even include the usual emergencies heart attack, cancer, car crash, births. The provincial and federal governments here encourage all to get the bivalent vaccine. "National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) continues to recommend that bivalent Omicron-containing mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are the preferred booster products for the authorized age groups. (Strong NACI recommendation)"
  - sfusato 4y ago
    Sweeden seems to be recommending further boosters to 65+. For those under 65, if you fall in certain categories. People aged 18–64 who are medically at-risk due to: - chronic cardiovascular disease, including stroke and high blood pressure (hypertension) - chronic lung disease such as COPD, and brittle asthma - other conditions that impair lung function or the ability to cough and clear mucus (for example, extreme obesity, neuromuscular disorders or multiple disabilities) - chronic liver and kidney failure - diabetes types 1 and 2 - conditions that severely weaken the immune system as a result of illness or treatment - Down’s syndrome - those who are pregnant with pregnancy-related risk factors such as being older than 35, high blood pressure (hypertension), diabetes, a BMI over 30 or other factor following individual assessment. English link: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency...
namkt 4y ago
ECDC/EMA seem to have similar guidelines: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda... e.g. "At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease. Neither is there clear evidence to support giving early second boosters to healthcare workers or those working in long-term care homes unless they are at high risk."
enkid 4y ago
"don't recommend" isn't the same as "recommend don't." They clearly state other people in those age ranges can get it. This makes the recommendation much closer than what you seem to be suggesting. (I'm not actually sure why you are bringing up Norwegian vaccine guidance, unless it's to suggest getting the booster is a bad idea for everyone else or maybe you are Norweigan).
- namkt 4y ago
  They don't recommend because they don't see clear evidence in outcomes. See my EMA link below. This doesn't make the recommendation any closer than recommending not to.
  - enkid 4y ago
    No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. They clearly state in that website that it's ok for people outside of there recommendations to get the booster.
    - dahfizz 4y ago
      > At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease.[1] The booster is an approved and safe procedure, but it confers no benefit unless you have risk factors. [1] https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda...
    - namkt 4y ago
      No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. That is exactly the point that I made above. And where does it so clearly state in the website that second part? And of course it's ok, but that doesn't make it a recommendation.
      - KurvaKing 4y ago
onos 4y ago
It sounds like they are saying no need to take one now for many groups. Does this mean they suggest taking one later in the year? Annually? Or are they just blanketly saying they don’t recommend getting a booster for these groups from this point on, pending further evidence?
- sfusato 4y ago
  It's recommended (not mandated) to 65+ cohort and under-65 with certain underlying risk conditions, but they won't stop you from getting it if you so wish. It is also possible for people in the 18-64 year age group without underlying risk conditions can choose to take a new booster dose if they wish.
mattivc 4y ago
That is not quite the whole story. They are making it available for anyone in Oslo, at least. [1] I live in Oslo and have an appointment to get a booster tomorrow. I have multiple friends and family members in the healthcare sector, and they are all warning me that we are likely to see a significant spike in the winter. At the same time we are seeing more and more sign that each repeated infection has increased risks. [2] - [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vaccine/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vacci... - [2] https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/ https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/
- lbeltrame 4y ago
  That's not what the paper cited by Time says. It is a study in the US veteran population, whose health condition is much poorer than the general population. Secondly, the study is set up to pick up bad outcomes. Third, the people compared are those with 1 and 2 infections after the second infection, rather than seeing the effect of each infection. Fourth, the paper is pre-Omicron. There is also far more than that. The press spun it quite a bit, in a different way. Personally, all my family members and myself have had a contact with SARS-CoV-2 within the past months. It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" (prior vaccination helps, but I'm not a person at risk anyway). It will be the first of many. I stopped caring after I got my second dose, and there's no way I will care now.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    > It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" I know somebody who contracted Malaria and lived. It wasn't particularly pleasant but certainly not a "deadly disease".
    - lbeltrame 4y ago
      Malaria is not an infection by a coronavirus (I do know one person too, FTR, my grandfather during the Albanian campaign in WWII). And it is not age stratified like a SARS-CoV-2 infection. And there's no 95% seroprevalence like with SARS-CoV-2 in most regions that had surges.

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cinquemb 4y ago
At the very least, it can shed light on the various interests at play behind governance polices at multiple levels and between organizations...
namkt 4y ago
Because only the US seems to have this guideline. Canada and the EU are not recommending boosters to the general population as pointed out above. It's similar for the flu; afaik, the EU recommends flu shots for ages 60+, not for the general adult population. The US makes a big deal every year on getting flu shots; in corporate media, in shops and outlets, etc. Edit: I stand corrected on the Canadian front; I had old information.
- 0x486566e7279 4y ago
  Canada is recommending boosters after 5 months from the previous.
- jlongman 4y ago
  In Quebec, Canada: not at risk, not old and I have a government prompt to get my next free COVID booster sitting in my inbox as well as a government email for the free flu shot. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-campaign-fifth-doses-1.6552374 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-vaccination-c... Health is a provincial domain.
throwawaylinux 4y ago
I guess that depends - what do the "trust the experts" crowd do when faced with dueling "experts"? Is the layperson an expert in expert-choosing, or do we need a second layer of experts for that?
- namkt 4y ago
  This case is simple for me: I'll always follow EU/Canadian healthcare guidelines before US ones by a very long shot, unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense.
  - itsoktocry 4y ago
    >unless there is an immediate problem in my local community where the US guidelines make more sense. This isn't simple at all then. You are following one set guidelines unless you see "a problem", then you follow another set. What makes you think you can identify the problems?
    - namkt 4y ago
      The government publishes infection rates at the county level. The county's health department may also have guidelines that differ slightly from the general nation-wide ones. If there is an uptick of infections in the local community and the boosters are recommended there (though still not necessarily at the macroscopic level), then that seems pretty clear to me. But I still concur with OP. I am not an expert, and I don't know how to choose between experts with differing opinions. What I do know is that I trust certain institutions more than others.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  Choose whichever "experts" agree with your own personal beliefs and ridicule the rest.

petard 4y ago

Denmark has the same policy, maybe Sweden too?

krn1p4n1c 4y ago
Sweden is still recommending it. https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-material/publikationsarkiv/r/rekommendation-om-vaccination-mot-covid-19/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/publikationer-och-materi... Anecdotally, I have 2 friends who are doctors in the kommun and both said the hospitals are short staffed, beds are filling up and they're seeing much more of the RSV/flu/Covid mix coming to the ER from people that are not in the listed "at risk groups". This matches what my best friends wife, who is a pulmonologist in the US, is saying.
- dghughes 4y ago
  Same for Canada RSV especially but also influenza. I'm not sure about covid. And beds filling with those is bad since that doesn't even include the usual emergencies heart attack, cancer, car crash, births. The provincial and federal governments here encourage all to get the bivalent vaccine. "National Advisory Committee on Immunization (NACI) continues to recommend that bivalent Omicron-containing mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are the preferred booster products for the authorized age groups. (Strong NACI recommendation)"
- sfusato 4y ago
  Sweeden seems to be recommending further boosters to 65+. For those under 65, if you fall in certain categories. People aged 18–64 who are medically at-risk due to: - chronic cardiovascular disease, including stroke and high blood pressure (hypertension) - chronic lung disease such as COPD, and brittle asthma - other conditions that impair lung function or the ability to cough and clear mucus (for example, extreme obesity, neuromuscular disorders or multiple disabilities) - chronic liver and kidney failure - diabetes types 1 and 2 - conditions that severely weaken the immune system as a result of illness or treatment - Down’s syndrome - those who are pregnant with pregnancy-related risk factors such as being older than 35, high blood pressure (hypertension), diabetes, a BMI over 30 or other factor following individual assessment. English link: https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency-of-sweden/communicable-disease-control/covid-19/vaccination-against-covid-19/order-of-priority-for-covid-19-vaccine/ https://www.folkhalsomyndigheten.se/the-public-health-agency...

namkt 4y ago

ECDC/EMA seem to have similar guidelines: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda... e.g. "At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease. Neither is there clear evidence to support giving early second boosters to healthcare workers or those working in long-term care homes unless they are at high risk."

enkid 4y ago

"don't recommend" isn't the same as "recommend don't." They clearly state other people in those age ranges can get it. This makes the recommendation much closer than what you seem to be suggesting. (I'm not actually sure why you are bringing up Norwegian vaccine guidance, unless it's to suggest getting the booster is a bad idea for everyone else or maybe you are Norweigan).

namkt 4y ago
They don't recommend because they don't see clear evidence in outcomes. See my EMA link below. This doesn't make the recommendation any closer than recommending not to.
- enkid 4y ago
  No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. They clearly state in that website that it's ok for people outside of there recommendations to get the booster.
  - dahfizz 4y ago
    > At the moment, there is no clear evidence to support giving a second booster dose to people below 60 years of age who are not at higher risk of severe disease.[1] The booster is an approved and safe procedure, but it confers no benefit unless you have risk factors. [1] https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommendations-additional-booster-doses-mrna-covid-19-vaccines https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ecdc-ema-update-recommenda...
  - namkt 4y ago
    No, "not having evidence" isn't the same as having evidence against. That is exactly the point that I made above. And where does it so clearly state in the website that second part? And of course it's ok, but that doesn't make it a recommendation.
    - KurvaKing 4y ago

onos 4y ago

It sounds like they are saying no need to take one now for many groups. Does this mean they suggest taking one later in the year? Annually? Or are they just blanketly saying they don’t recommend getting a booster for these groups from this point on, pending further evidence?

sfusato 4y ago
It's recommended (not mandated) to 65+ cohort and under-65 with certain underlying risk conditions, but they won't stop you from getting it if you so wish. It is also possible for people in the 18-64 year age group without underlying risk conditions can choose to take a new booster dose if they wish.

mattivc 4y ago

That is not quite the whole story. They are making it available for anyone in Oslo, at least. [1] I live in Oslo and have an appointment to get a booster tomorrow. I have multiple friends and family members in the healthcare sector, and they are all warning me that we are likely to see a significant spike in the winter. At the same time we are seeing more and more sign that each repeated infection has increased risks. [2] - [1] https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vaccine/ https://www.oslo.kommune.no/english/coronavirus/corona-vacci... - [2] https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/ https://time.com/6232103/covid-19-reinfections-effects/

lbeltrame 4y ago
That's not what the paper cited by Time says. It is a study in the US veteran population, whose health condition is much poorer than the general population. Secondly, the study is set up to pick up bad outcomes. Third, the people compared are those with 1 and 2 infections after the second infection, rather than seeing the effect of each infection. Fourth, the paper is pre-Omicron. There is also far more than that. The press spun it quite a bit, in a different way. Personally, all my family members and myself have had a contact with SARS-CoV-2 within the past months. It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" (prior vaccination helps, but I'm not a person at risk anyway). It will be the first of many. I stopped caring after I got my second dose, and there's no way I will care now.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  > It wasn't particularly pleasant, but certainly not a "deadly virus" I know somebody who contracted Malaria and lived. It wasn't particularly pleasant but certainly not a "deadly disease".
  - lbeltrame 4y ago
    Malaria is not an infection by a coronavirus (I do know one person too, FTR, my grandfather during the Albanian campaign in WWII). And it is not age stratified like a SARS-CoV-2 infection. And there's no 95% seroprevalence like with SARS-CoV-2 in most regions that had surges.