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> A "you're holding it wrong" flaw could result in death rather than missed calls How many people were affected by this, and is this comparable to the failure

> A "you're holding it wrong" flaw could result in death rather than missed calls How many people were affected by this, and is this comparable to the failure rate of the dive computer you implicitly trust? Quick Googling: --- start quote --- From our internal information and industry connections, the failure rates we have seen over the expected service lifetime of a computer vary from 0.5% to 50%, based on the brand and model. And don't think that any particular brand makes you safe. For example, while Suunto is generally a reliable brand, the early D3 was a disaster in terms of failure rates. The Stinger on the other hand was very reliable. --- end quote --- 50% failure rate. For an activity that can kill you. Imagine if these companies were under the same scrutiny as Apple. Or for example [2] --- start quote --- I bought the computer in February 2018 March 2019, the straps + mount started rotting away April 2019 - software error E6 Enter the Bluetooth connection issues... November 2021 - E37 error! July 2022 - button loose (?!), computer floods, game over... --- end quote --- Or a settlement [3] "Suunto settles scary scuba screwup for $50m: 'Faulty' dive computer hardware and software put explorers in peril" [1] https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/dive-computers-failure-rates.226196/post-4277909 https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/dive-computers-fail... [2] https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/experience-report-scubapro-aladin-sport-matrix-a-great-computer-but.624991/ https://scubaboard.com/community/threads/experience-report-s... [3] https://www.theregister.com/2018/12/19/suunto_scuba_screwup/ https://www.theregister.com/2018/12/19/suunto_scuba_screwup/

bombolo 4y ago
> How many people were affected by this, and is this comparable to the failure rate of the dive computer you implicitly trust? No idea. All the owners of that model of iphone. I have no clue how many units were sold. How is that important? Failure rate talk is a 14yrs old post from a manufacturer that used to make dive computers but has stopped. Let's ignore that until a better source is given. 2nd link: some contaminant is destroying the computer… I'm sure apple™plastic™ is no more resistant than regular plastic. The bluetooth is not a life threatening issue. The software issues are indeed worrying. In any event, those are companies that have sold millions of units. Diving with the apple watch is so costly (hardware + subscription) that few rich hobbyists will do that, and no professional diver. I'm sure failures and issues will come out, but not in the same numbers, because the heavy users can buy 2 dive computers to have redundancy and still spend less than how much it costs doing it with apple.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > No idea. All the owners of that model of iphone. I have no clue how many units were sold. How is that important? So, you have no idea how many were affected, but "all users". How is that important? If it was 1% of 1% of users affected, then it's probably better than most diving equipment. If it's 99%, then it's bad. > Let's ignore that until a better source is given. And yet, when we talk about Apple it's "I don't know, all of them". Hm... > In any event, those are companies that have sold millions of units. So has Apple. Your point? > that few rich hobbyists will do that, and no professional diver. How is that relevant to your implicit trust in diving computers and explicit mistrust in Apple because of something that happened 12 years ago to an unknown percentage of users for a phone that in first three days sold more than probably all dive computers are being sold in a year. > I'm sure failures and issues will come out, but not in the same numbers, I wonder if you realise that individual models from various dive computer makers are probably selling in the same numbers as what's expected from Apple Watch Ultra. And yet, you trust them implicitly.
  - bombolo 4y ago
    > So, you have no idea how many were affected, but "all users". How is that important? If it was 1% of 1% of users affected, then it's probably better than most diving equipment. If it's 99%, then it's bad. I like how you like to make up random numbers with no data to sound very scientific :) > And yet, when we talk about Apple it's "I don't know, all of them". Hm... That's because I don't provide random forum posts of something happening to 1 person as "this happens to every user". > So has Apple. Your point? Apple has sold millions of scuba diving apple watches to active scuba divers??? Do you have a source on this unbelievable fact you just made up? > How is that relevant The thing is that I base my opinions on data, and at the moment there is no existing data. You on the other hand just type numbers to justify your opinions, and call that "data". So it is relevant because apple watch will never see intensive scuba diving use, and will thus experience fewer total failures, because of not being used as much. Like, a car driving constantly breaks way more often than a car that is just being displayed. Doesn't necessarily mean that the display car is better because it doesn't fail. > I wonder if you realise that individual models from various dive computer makers are probably selling in the same numbers as what's expected from Apple Watch Ultra. I wonder if you realise instead of buying 1 apple watch you can buy 2 diving computers, have excellent redundancy and save 500$.

bombolo 4y ago

> How many people were affected by this, and is this comparable to the failure rate of the dive computer you implicitly trust? No idea. All the owners of that model of iphone. I have no clue how many units were sold. How is that important? Failure rate talk is a 14yrs old post from a manufacturer that used to make dive computers but has stopped. Let's ignore that until a better source is given. 2nd link: some contaminant is destroying the computer… I'm sure apple™plastic™ is no more resistant than regular plastic. The bluetooth is not a life threatening issue. The software issues are indeed worrying. In any event, those are companies that have sold millions of units. Diving with the apple watch is so costly (hardware + subscription) that few rich hobbyists will do that, and no professional diver. I'm sure failures and issues will come out, but not in the same numbers, because the heavy users can buy 2 dive computers to have redundancy and still spend less than how much it costs doing it with apple.

dmitriid 4y ago
> No idea. All the owners of that model of iphone. I have no clue how many units were sold. How is that important? So, you have no idea how many were affected, but "all users". How is that important? If it was 1% of 1% of users affected, then it's probably better than most diving equipment. If it's 99%, then it's bad. > Let's ignore that until a better source is given. And yet, when we talk about Apple it's "I don't know, all of them". Hm... > In any event, those are companies that have sold millions of units. So has Apple. Your point? > that few rich hobbyists will do that, and no professional diver. How is that relevant to your implicit trust in diving computers and explicit mistrust in Apple because of something that happened 12 years ago to an unknown percentage of users for a phone that in first three days sold more than probably all dive computers are being sold in a year. > I'm sure failures and issues will come out, but not in the same numbers, I wonder if you realise that individual models from various dive computer makers are probably selling in the same numbers as what's expected from Apple Watch Ultra. And yet, you trust them implicitly.
- bombolo 4y ago
  > So, you have no idea how many were affected, but "all users". How is that important? If it was 1% of 1% of users affected, then it's probably better than most diving equipment. If it's 99%, then it's bad. I like how you like to make up random numbers with no data to sound very scientific :) > And yet, when we talk about Apple it's "I don't know, all of them". Hm... That's because I don't provide random forum posts of something happening to 1 person as "this happens to every user". > So has Apple. Your point? Apple has sold millions of scuba diving apple watches to active scuba divers??? Do you have a source on this unbelievable fact you just made up? > How is that relevant The thing is that I base my opinions on data, and at the moment there is no existing data. You on the other hand just type numbers to justify your opinions, and call that "data". So it is relevant because apple watch will never see intensive scuba diving use, and will thus experience fewer total failures, because of not being used as much. Like, a car driving constantly breaks way more often than a car that is just being displayed. Doesn't necessarily mean that the display car is better because it doesn't fail. > I wonder if you realise that individual models from various dive computer makers are probably selling in the same numbers as what's expected from Apple Watch Ultra. I wonder if you realise instead of buying 1 apple watch you can buy 2 diving computers, have excellent redundancy and save 500$.