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This is debunked. Tofu is incredibly protein dense - on par or surpassing chicken breast. Without looking it up and subjectively, tofu also seems to be digested

by ianai 4y ago

This is debunked. Tofu is incredibly protein dense - on par or surpassing chicken breast. Without looking it up and subjectively, tofu also seems to be digested very easily. There’s also seitan and the beans. Nuts also exist but have fat/protein ratios that tend toward uncomfortably high. (If what your eating has macros that approach the fat content in nuts to other nutrients that’s pretty high and should be noted.)

cogman10 4y ago
Pea protein is also a complete protein. I've honestly never heard of protein being a problem for vegans. The bigger issue is vitamins, in particular B12. But that's easily fixed with a daily multivitamin.
- ianai 4y ago
  Knew I was leaving things out. Thanks for including peas! I don’t want to know how anybody gets actual, non-supplemented B12 nowadays. Many foods add a B12 in the form of cyanocobalamin. We evolved in a world where bacteria left B12 on nearly every surface left out long enough. But nowadays we clean our food and it shouldn’t be present. People will say they get it from the organ meat of certain animals - because that’s where those animals collect the B12 in their environment. Notably, I avoid cyanocobalamin like the plague. It releases small amounts of cyanide into your liver upon processing. It’s also not particularly bioavailable. There are better B12s and I wish food would leave me to choose it myself.
- marcus0x62 4y ago
  Peas are a complete protein, but in their natural form they suffer from poor digestability compared to animal proteins. (Split peas have a PDCAAS score of around 0.5 - 0.6. Pea protein isolates can get up to 0.9, or comparable to chicken.)
  - ianai 4y ago
    It’s not all about bioavailability. Fiber might not be digested by us but the microbes that do fill the role of an organ. Giving the body something to work on offers benefits like leveled out blood sugars. This pdcaas metric needs a high quality reference.
    - marcus0x62 4y ago
      Here you go. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867064/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867064/ https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-022-01951-2 https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/...
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Necessary footnote: Peas (gen Pisum) are very close to gen Lathyrus. Many of this wild flowers use a chemical defense to protect their seeds that is accumulative and can lead to serious and permanent neurodegenerative consequences at long term. Lathyrism is one of the oldest diseases known in the history. Was observed in people with irreversible damages on their spinal cord after eating big amounts of the plant Lathyrus sativus, today known as Pisum sativum or "pea". The disease develops after heavy consumption of peas for over two months so, to include an unlimited amount of Pisum sativum in the diet as your main source of protein is a terrible idea. Another case of wrong solutions and dangerous advice provided by veganism. If you are doing it, please stop right now and read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathyrism
  - cogman10 4y ago
    Just because 2 things are related does not mean they are equally dangerous. Potatoes, tomatos, eggplants, and most peppers are in the Solanaceae family, same as deadly nightshade (Atropa belladonna), which is extremely poisonous. Yet potatoes are a staple crop. The commonly consumed pea types (yellow, sweet, snap, snow) have no risk of causing Lathyrism. Only wild peas pose a risk and those are outright banned in most nations. (notable exception, india, where it is part of several common dishes).
    - pvaldes 4y ago
      You have been warned. Plants are unsafe to eat by default The fact that wild peas are much more dangerous does not remove the danger from common sweet peas (of any kind or color, Is the same species). Is a matter of how much of it you eat, and if you allow enough days between meals to detox. It depends also in "how" you eat it. If you mix it with cereals or not (hint, you should) and even in "where" you cook it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679560/
      - cogman10 4y ago
        > You have been warned. You are spreading FUD. The link you've provided is yet another study on wild peas (grass pea is a wild pea, Lathyrus sativus, just a different name). Show me the study that links sweet pea, Lathyrus odoratus, consumption with Neurolathyrism. The only danger to eating sweet peas is when you eat them in combination with eating wild peas. [1] The pea types I listed do not cause lathyrism without being mixed with Lathyrus sativus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteolathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteolathyrism
iopq 4y ago
Tofu is not digested easily, it has a lot of ingredients our omnivore stomachs cannot digest, so the bacteria gets to it. It's made out of soy beans, so yes, it will cause gas and bloating.
barrell 4y ago
This is absolutely not 'debunked'. Taken from wikipedia entry on Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score [1]: - Chicken has a PDCAAS of 0.95 - Soy has a PDCAAS of 0.92 - Black beans have a PDCAAS of 0.74 (highest legume) - Other beans and legumes have a PDCAAS of 0.70 - Wheat (seitan) has a PDCAAS of 0.42 Facts: Soy has good enough nutrients to make a valid claims for it without throwing away valid science. Soy is not surpassing chicken breast in PDCAAS, or red meat. Eggs and dairy literally break the scale and are by far the highest ranking whole foods on a PDCAAS basis. Seitan and beans are terrible in comparison in terms of PDCAAS, with you needing to consume nearly 2x the amount of protein from the former to compete with the later. Opinions: As far as fat goes, keep in mind tofu has a 1:2 fat:protein ratio. Chicken breast is 1:20+. This reason is the reason a lot of people herald chicken breast Overconsumption of soy can lead to health implications Soy does not have enough leucine to trigger the MTOR pathways to build muscle. If you are having soy post workout, you need to consume 45-60g of protein, vs just 20-30g of protein from animal products Red meat has literally everything you need to live. Throw in a little carbs and fiber too and you can run at peak performance without worrying about anything in your diet. Biases: I've been relentless about my diet for 10 years and have tried everything. This includes vegan, vegetarian, keto, carb cycling, protein sparring modified fasts, you name it. This year I started eating an animal based diet and not only do I feel great, my TDEE went from 2400 to over 3700. This means while I used to eat 2400kCal to maintain my weight, I now have to eat 3700 to maintain my weight, and I feel fantastic while doing so. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Correcte...
- ianai 4y ago
  “- Chicken has a PDCAAS of 0.95 - Soy has a PDCAAS of 0.92” That sounds pretty comparable from your chosen metric.
  - barrell 4y ago
    I don't disagree that it's comparable - in fact that's half my point. That was the first 'fact' I listed. It's pointless to claim bioavailability is 'debunked', because soy stands on it's own in the bioavailability data. However, it's also misleading to claim it's debunked then point to seitan and beans as viable alternatives, or warn against fat content immediately after comparing tofu to chicken.
unwind 4y ago
Tofu is incredibly protein dense - on par or surpassing chicken breast. According to Wikipedia and Google, tofu [1] has 8% protein, while chicken [2] has almost 31%. Is there some more finesse required in the exact variety of tofu that you mean? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Nutrition_and_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Nutrition_and_health [2]: https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+breast+nutrition+100g https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+breast+nutrition+100...
- ianai 4y ago
  Just press all the water out of tofu you want and you, too, can get it to whatever percentage protein you want.
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    Water does not matter in the ratio of protein versus fat.

by ianai 4y ago

cogman10 4y ago

Pea protein is also a complete protein. I've honestly never heard of protein being a problem for vegans. The bigger issue is vitamins, in particular B12. But that's easily fixed with a daily multivitamin.

ianai 4y ago
Knew I was leaving things out. Thanks for including peas! I don’t want to know how anybody gets actual, non-supplemented B12 nowadays. Many foods add a B12 in the form of cyanocobalamin. We evolved in a world where bacteria left B12 on nearly every surface left out long enough. But nowadays we clean our food and it shouldn’t be present. People will say they get it from the organ meat of certain animals - because that’s where those animals collect the B12 in their environment. Notably, I avoid cyanocobalamin like the plague. It releases small amounts of cyanide into your liver upon processing. It’s also not particularly bioavailable. There are better B12s and I wish food would leave me to choose it myself.
marcus0x62 4y ago
Peas are a complete protein, but in their natural form they suffer from poor digestability compared to animal proteins. (Split peas have a PDCAAS score of around 0.5 - 0.6. Pea protein isolates can get up to 0.9, or comparable to chicken.)
- ianai 4y ago
  It’s not all about bioavailability. Fiber might not be digested by us but the microbes that do fill the role of an organ. Giving the body something to work on offers benefits like leveled out blood sugars. This pdcaas metric needs a high quality reference.
  - marcus0x62 4y ago
    Here you go. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867064/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10867064/ https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13643-022-01951-2 https://systematicreviewsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/...
pvaldes 4y ago
Necessary footnote: Peas (gen Pisum) are very close to gen Lathyrus. Many of this wild flowers use a chemical defense to protect their seeds that is accumulative and can lead to serious and permanent neurodegenerative consequences at long term. Lathyrism is one of the oldest diseases known in the history. Was observed in people with irreversible damages on their spinal cord after eating big amounts of the plant Lathyrus sativus, today known as Pisum sativum or "pea". The disease develops after heavy consumption of peas for over two months so, to include an unlimited amount of Pisum sativum in the diet as your main source of protein is a terrible idea. Another case of wrong solutions and dangerous advice provided by veganism. If you are doing it, please stop right now and read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathyrism
- cogman10 4y ago
  Just because 2 things are related does not mean they are equally dangerous. Potatoes, tomatos, eggplants, and most peppers are in the Solanaceae family, same as deadly nightshade (Atropa belladonna), which is extremely poisonous. Yet potatoes are a staple crop. The commonly consumed pea types (yellow, sweet, snap, snow) have no risk of causing Lathyrism. Only wild peas pose a risk and those are outright banned in most nations. (notable exception, india, where it is part of several common dishes).
  - pvaldes 4y ago
    You have been warned. Plants are unsafe to eat by default The fact that wild peas are much more dangerous does not remove the danger from common sweet peas (of any kind or color, Is the same species). Is a matter of how much of it you eat, and if you allow enough days between meals to detox. It depends also in "how" you eat it. If you mix it with cereals or not (hint, you should) and even in "where" you cook it. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679560/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15679560/
    - cogman10 4y ago
      > You have been warned. You are spreading FUD. The link you've provided is yet another study on wild peas (grass pea is a wild pea, Lathyrus sativus, just a different name). Show me the study that links sweet pea, Lathyrus odoratus, consumption with Neurolathyrism. The only danger to eating sweet peas is when you eat them in combination with eating wild peas. [1] The pea types I listed do not cause lathyrism without being mixed with Lathyrus sativus. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteolathyrism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osteolathyrism

iopq 4y ago

Tofu is not digested easily, it has a lot of ingredients our omnivore stomachs cannot digest, so the bacteria gets to it. It's made out of soy beans, so yes, it will cause gas and bloating.

barrell 4y ago

This is absolutely not 'debunked'. Taken from wikipedia entry on Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score [1]: - Chicken has a PDCAAS of 0.95 - Soy has a PDCAAS of 0.92 - Black beans have a PDCAAS of 0.74 (highest legume) - Other beans and legumes have a PDCAAS of 0.70 - Wheat (seitan) has a PDCAAS of 0.42 Facts: Soy has good enough nutrients to make a valid claims for it without throwing away valid science. Soy is not surpassing chicken breast in PDCAAS, or red meat. Eggs and dairy literally break the scale and are by far the highest ranking whole foods on a PDCAAS basis. Seitan and beans are terrible in comparison in terms of PDCAAS, with you needing to consume nearly 2x the amount of protein from the former to compete with the later. Opinions: As far as fat goes, keep in mind tofu has a 1:2 fat:protein ratio. Chicken breast is 1:20+. This reason is the reason a lot of people herald chicken breast Overconsumption of soy can lead to health implications Soy does not have enough leucine to trigger the MTOR pathways to build muscle. If you are having soy post workout, you need to consume 45-60g of protein, vs just 20-30g of protein from animal products Red meat has literally everything you need to live. Throw in a little carbs and fiber too and you can run at peak performance without worrying about anything in your diet. Biases: I've been relentless about my diet for 10 years and have tried everything. This includes vegan, vegetarian, keto, carb cycling, protein sparring modified fasts, you name it. This year I started eating an animal based diet and not only do I feel great, my TDEE went from 2400 to over 3700. This means while I used to eat 2400kCal to maintain my weight, I now have to eat 3700 to maintain my weight, and I feel fantastic while doing so. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Corrected_Amino_Acid_Score https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_Digestibility_Correcte...

ianai 4y ago
“- Chicken has a PDCAAS of 0.95 - Soy has a PDCAAS of 0.92” That sounds pretty comparable from your chosen metric.
- barrell 4y ago
  I don't disagree that it's comparable - in fact that's half my point. That was the first 'fact' I listed. It's pointless to claim bioavailability is 'debunked', because soy stands on it's own in the bioavailability data. However, it's also misleading to claim it's debunked then point to seitan and beans as viable alternatives, or warn against fat content immediately after comparing tofu to chicken.

unwind 4y ago

Tofu is incredibly protein dense - on par or surpassing chicken breast. According to Wikipedia and Google, tofu [1] has 8% protein, while chicken [2] has almost 31%. Is there some more finesse required in the exact variety of tofu that you mean? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Nutrition_and_health https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tofu#Nutrition_and_health [2]: https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+breast+nutrition+100g https://www.google.com/search?q=chicken+breast+nutrition+100...

ianai 4y ago
Just press all the water out of tofu you want and you, too, can get it to whatever percentage protein you want.
- pvaldes 4y ago
  Water does not matter in the ratio of protein versus fat.