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TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls

TLDR don't use Telegram and Signal as some "alternatives" Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar (no (video)calls), Delta (no (video)calls), Jami, not recommending Threema because they can tie you through payment and it's centralized Here simple chart to see what to use and not use (use translate feature): https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html https://www.messenger-matrix.de/messenger-matrix.html

Normille 4y ago
>Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar... With those other clients you mention, one of the reasons your communications will remain secure is that --because so few people use them-- you'll struggle to find anyone to message, in the first place.
- Markoff 4y ago
  Sure, but in that case you can just go with Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger with WA being at least E2E by default, no point even trying some "alternatives" as Signal or Telegram under pretense of security. With Telegram I can see at least appeal in using it as news source, chat room or for bots, but what offers Signal besides hype about The Current Thing? Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?
  - Normille 4y ago
    >With Telegram I can see at least appeal in using it as news source, chat room or for bots, but what offers Signal besides hype about The Current Thing?... I use Telegram as a less 'facebooky' alternative to WhatsApp. Most of my friends and all my family are on it and, as a convenient messenger, it has a lot going for it; fast, 100% reliable sync across all my devices, generous file transfers, ability to quickly ping someone your location, ability to set up and subscribe to channels, etc. etc. It also has some infuriatingly shite 'features' such as the fact that one party in a conversation can delete messages from the other party's device and [as is oft-mentioned] the fact that comms are not E2E encrypted by default. But, on the whole, I reckon it's the best all-round messenger app out there. Just so long as you're not under any illusion that your comms are in any way secure.
    - wallaBBB 4y ago
      With the amount of fake news being pushed through Telegram groups that are public, Telegram is by far more Facebooky than WhatsApp. Ukrainian war disinformation and crypto scams being a good example of Facebookiness on Telegram.
      - Normille 4y ago
        Fair point. But at least, on Telegram, you have to actively seek out such channels to join and they don't otherwise impinge on your use of the service. It's not like other social media outlets where there's a central site which endlessly shoves crap you don't want to see in your face, every time you visit. And yes, I know that, strictly speaking 'Telegram != social media'. But, with Telegram Channels, it does kind of cross over into the 'Discordy' end of social media.
- ls15 4y ago
  I think you are underestimating exponential growth: https://news.itsfoss.com/matrix-sixty-million-users/ https://news.itsfoss.com/matrix-sixty-million-users/
  - Semaphor 4y ago
    I think you are overestimating. I know more Jabber users than Matrix. And the overlap with people I’m in actual contact with, as opposed to people I used to study C.Sc. with, is 0 for both.
cpach 4y ago
Signal is the most secure messaging app out there.
- Markoff 4y ago
  ROFL Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?
  - rvz 4y ago
    This. As Signal is on a centralized Google Cloud instance, it can easily be shut down by the providers and that is that. > nobody knows what they did during that year). They (and Moxie) were too busy shoving their private cryptocurrency scam project in Signal to later get as many users using it as possible to then pump and dump the coins on exchanges. Signal is a complete joke.
    - yoavm 4y ago
      The fact that it can be shut down easily has nothing to do with how secure it is. I too dislike the fact that it is centralized, and the cryptocurrency thing, but from this to say that Signal is "complete joke" - it's not just a long way, it's non-sense.
  - vore 4y ago
    The Signal client has always been open source: you can inspect precisely what the client is sending to the server (if you trust the source). If you're not sending undesirable information from the client to the server, no amount of closed source-ness of the server is going to get that from you. Signal has always been transparent about what information get sent to the server: https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ Even if some adversary is doing some kind of correlation to glean metadata from your traffic, they are definitely doing the table stakes here to preserve privacy and not just send your information off willy-nilly.
arlort 4y ago
Matrix might become the best option, but as of now I seem to recall it having some rather serious issues, ranging from not handling metadata well to malicious homeservers possibly breaking the encryption of users on other homeservers I might be misremembering though
kensai 4y ago
Threema can be paid with burner Bitcoin. So I would say that Threema is fairly secure.
- Markoff 4y ago
  Good luck buying bitcoin with cash. I mean it is possible, but hardly anyone does it, thus you can't really anonymously pay for Threema, you have to jump through way too many hoops to use Threema compared to other apps, which is why it's difficult to recommend it.
throwaway67743 4y ago
Matrix is not secure, Fluffy chat even less so than Element (but client is irrelevant it's still insecure)
em-bee 4y ago
deltachat now integrates nicely with jitsi and similar solutions to provide a video chat feature

Normille 4y ago

>Use Matrix clients (Element, Fluffy chat) or Session, Briar... With those other clients you mention, one of the reasons your communications will remain secure is that --because so few people use them-- you'll struggle to find anyone to message, in the first place.

Markoff 4y ago
Sure, but in that case you can just go with Whatsapp and Facebook Messenger with WA being at least E2E by default, no point even trying some "alternatives" as Signal or Telegram under pretense of security. With Telegram I can see at least appeal in using it as news source, chat room or for bots, but what offers Signal besides hype about The Current Thing? Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?
- Normille 4y ago
  >With Telegram I can see at least appeal in using it as news source, chat room or for bots, but what offers Signal besides hype about The Current Thing?... I use Telegram as a less 'facebooky' alternative to WhatsApp. Most of my friends and all my family are on it and, as a convenient messenger, it has a lot going for it; fast, 100% reliable sync across all my devices, generous file transfers, ability to quickly ping someone your location, ability to set up and subscribe to channels, etc. etc. It also has some infuriatingly shite 'features' such as the fact that one party in a conversation can delete messages from the other party's device and [as is oft-mentioned] the fact that comms are not E2E encrypted by default. But, on the whole, I reckon it's the best all-round messenger app out there. Just so long as you're not under any illusion that your comms are in any way secure.
  - wallaBBB 4y ago
    With the amount of fake news being pushed through Telegram groups that are public, Telegram is by far more Facebooky than WhatsApp. Ukrainian war disinformation and crypto scams being a good example of Facebookiness on Telegram.
    - Normille 4y ago
      Fair point. But at least, on Telegram, you have to actively seek out such channels to join and they don't otherwise impinge on your use of the service. It's not like other social media outlets where there's a central site which endlessly shoves crap you don't want to see in your face, every time you visit. And yes, I know that, strictly speaking 'Telegram != social media'. But, with Telegram Channels, it does kind of cross over into the 'Discordy' end of social media.
ls15 4y ago
I think you are underestimating exponential growth: https://news.itsfoss.com/matrix-sixty-million-users/ https://news.itsfoss.com/matrix-sixty-million-users/
- Semaphor 4y ago
  I think you are overestimating. I know more Jabber users than Matrix. And the overlap with people I’m in actual contact with, as opposed to people I used to study C.Sc. with, is 0 for both.

cpach 4y ago

Signal is the most secure messaging app out there.

Markoff 4y ago
ROFL Signal uses centralized server with closed source (they hidden code for one year until they finally gave up when users nagged them, nobody knows what they did during that year), Signal requires your phone number, Signal doesn't allow third party apps officially and tried to push some shady crypto, I mean how many red flags you need to avoid such POS app?
- rvz 4y ago
  This. As Signal is on a centralized Google Cloud instance, it can easily be shut down by the providers and that is that. > nobody knows what they did during that year). They (and Moxie) were too busy shoving their private cryptocurrency scam project in Signal to later get as many users using it as possible to then pump and dump the coins on exchanges. Signal is a complete joke.
  - yoavm 4y ago
    The fact that it can be shut down easily has nothing to do with how secure it is. I too dislike the fact that it is centralized, and the cryptocurrency thing, but from this to say that Signal is "complete joke" - it's not just a long way, it's non-sense.
- vore 4y ago
  The Signal client has always been open source: you can inspect precisely what the client is sending to the server (if you trust the source). If you're not sending undesirable information from the client to the server, no amount of closed source-ness of the server is going to get that from you. Signal has always been transparent about what information get sent to the server: https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ https://signal.org/blog/private-contact-discovery/ Even if some adversary is doing some kind of correlation to glean metadata from your traffic, they are definitely doing the table stakes here to preserve privacy and not just send your information off willy-nilly.

arlort 4y ago

Matrix might become the best option, but as of now I seem to recall it having some rather serious issues, ranging from not handling metadata well to malicious homeservers possibly breaking the encryption of users on other homeservers I might be misremembering though

kensai 4y ago

Threema can be paid with burner Bitcoin. So I would say that Threema is fairly secure.

Markoff 4y ago
Good luck buying bitcoin with cash. I mean it is possible, but hardly anyone does it, thus you can't really anonymously pay for Threema, you have to jump through way too many hoops to use Threema compared to other apps, which is why it's difficult to recommend it.

throwaway67743 4y ago

Matrix is not secure, Fluffy chat even less so than Element (but client is irrelevant it's still insecure)

em-bee 4y ago

deltachat now integrates nicely with jitsi and similar solutions to provide a video chat feature