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This post is crowded with responses from people explaining why they hate Beyond meat FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a

This post is crowded with responses from people explaining why they hate Beyond meat FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a few shares since I figured they'd do well. I've tried Impossible Burgers too (both prepared by others and myself), and I don't like that it has hemoglobin in it and for some reason it's more in the uncanny valley than Beyond meat is for me - Beyond Meat is just different enough that it doesn't taste to me like moldy beef the way Impossible Burgers seem to. What _did_ eventually get me to stop making Beyond Burgers is that the fat and sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef. Reducing red meat consumption to once a month or so achieves basically the same benefits, and occasional red meat consumption + no more frequent beyond meat burgers is healthier in the long run than what I was doing before. I think an under-appreciated advantage to the veggie and black bean burger options out there is they tend to be way better w.r.t. fat and sodium, and taste just as good once you give up on the "almost beef" taste of these new-wave alternatives, but Beyond Meat _did_ work for a few people out there and just never tweaked their product enough to seriously compete with cheaper alternatives as inflation has gotten worse.

ghostpepper 4y ago
What do you see as the benefit of reducing red meat to once a month? There was a widely-publicized article recently questioning some "well-established" science that had, previously for decades, linked red meat to higher rates of heart disease, etc.
- Double_a_92 4y ago
  I don't think it's about health, it's about not having to unnecessarily farm cows.
- hcks 4y ago
  Could you or someone link this article please? Thanks
  - effingwewt 4y ago
    Here[1] is the article post on HN and the OP[2] on case you want the article directly. Tangentially, seems to me the science on every food seems to change every few years. Sugar, fat, MSG, eggs, butter, meat, fish, milk, the list goes on. As others in both this and the linked article stated, I think just reducing consumption would drastically reduce the amount of necessary livestock, which would reduce everything else in the chain. I definitely became more conscious of what I consume from all the secondary and tertiary effects. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33655321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33655321 [2] https://bigthink.com/health/red-meat-cancer-not-health-risk/ https://bigthink.com/health/red-meat-cancer-not-health-risk/
    - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
      I tried to do a deepdive on nutrition a few years back when I went on a diet. My conclusion was that there are far too many confounding factors for any population studies to be taken too seriously. That's why the field is so vogueish like you point out. Long term, highly controlled trials are more useful, but much rarer.
- willsmith72 4y ago
  Not a vege, but that study doesn't really say say as much the article made it out. The core thesis was essentially: "Eating red meat at most causes increases in risks of cancer and similar by 15%. If people replace calories that could come from vegetables with red meat, that risk gets worse because they're eating less vegetables" So yeah, eating red meat isn't that bad, but if it reduces your vegetable intake significantly, it probably is worse for you. And it's harder to get the right amount of vegetables if you eat a lot of red meat (unless you just want to increase your calorie intake)
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    Same with sugar. For most people, Sugar is either pushing you over your calorie threshold or it’s displacing healthier food you could have eaten instead which is reason enough to reduce it.
braingenious 4y ago
What is “burger sauce”?
- bagels 4y ago
  Ketchup + mayo oftentimes
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    Needs mustard too.
  - braingenious 4y ago
    I thought that was fry sauce.
  - ThunderSizzle 4y ago
    Basically a sugar mixture then? We already get enough unintended sugars.
    - unethical_ban 4y ago
      So you eat your burgers dry?
      - Loughla 4y ago
        Pickles, lettuce, tomato, a whole fried egg. All of these are options that don't include sugar. There are options outside of ketchup (corn syrup) and mayo (probably corn syrup). Except the pickles. I bet those have sugar. But I'll fight anyone who eats hamburgers without pickles.
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > Pickles, lettuce, tomato, a whole fried egg. All of these are options that don't include sugar. All of those except for the egg have sugars as a major source of calories, they just aren't, except for the egg, particularly calorie dense.
musiciangames 4y ago
> sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef Hasn't the dietary sodium thing been found to be a non-issue, except for a few individuals with high blood pressure? https://www.cochrane.org/CD004022/HTN_effect-low-salt-diet-blood-pressure-and-some-hormones-and-lipids-people-normal-and-elevated-blood https://www.cochrane.org/CD004022/HTN_effect-low-salt-diet-b...
- Traubenfuchs 4y ago
  High sodium diets are "associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" "in a hypertension-independent manner". They are associated, among many other ailments, with strokes, cancer and heart failure. https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/sodium/effects-of-excess-sodium-infographic https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/
  - musiciangames 4y ago
    Thanks for the input. Not sure to what extent the links support the assertion > "associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" "in a hypertension-independent manner" > https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s... Excess levels of sodium/salt *may* put you at risk for: Excess levels of sodium/salt *may* cause increased water retention that leads to: (my emphasis) > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ "Some studies have shown that HSD has a positive correlation with albuminuria, an important risk factor for the development and progression of kidney disease in a hypertension-independent manner " A correlation with a risk factor .It asserts "is associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" with no citation. The paper itself is about feeding a high-salt diet to mice. I'll see your citations, and raise you: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33351135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33351135/ Sodium intake, life expectancy, and all-cause mortality "Our observation of sodium intake correlating positively with life expectancy and inversely with all-cause mortality worldwide and in high-income countries argues against dietary sodium intake being a culprit of curtailing life span or a risk factor for premature death. These data are observational and should not be used as a base for nutritional interventions".
skerit 4y ago
> What _did_ eventually get me to stop making Beyond Burgers is that the fat and sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef Exactly. As a vegetarian, I do choose a Beyond burger when I go to a burger restaurant, but I never buy it to make at home. There are healthier alternatives that are also delicious.
- Pxtl 4y ago
  For me it's the exact opposite. I'm a vegetarian for ideological reasons, not health ones. I'm not the healthy kind of vegetarian at all. For me the only flaw of Beyond Meat is that it's a bit too salty and it sits a bit funny (weird-flavored burps after you eat it). They have a solidly good product, it's a shame they can't make it work. As a parent one big problem I had with them was that for home use they only sell the huge quarter pound patties (while they do shrink when you cook them, they do so less than beef) which were too much for my kid. I had to thaw them, slice them down the middle (which is tricky) and cook the two halves separately. They're much too big for a standard burger bun. It seems obvious they're going for a prestigious form-factor but missing out on being able to sell something more universal.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
> FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a few shares since I figured they'd do well. You are the target demographic; you're looking for a vegetarian or vegan meat analog so you can continue your existing eating habits and the meals you're familiar with, instead of the more difficult task of changing your lifestyle and diet. That said, chips are vegan.
jwally 4y ago
1000% this! IMHO, Health / Nutrition is very K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid), but it feels like so many people get caught in the trap of finding "one weird trick" to keep them lean / healthy and then setting common sense on fire - so long as they obey that rule. > Vegans are healthier and leaner than Omnivores. Therefore I can eat pastries for breakfast lunch and dinner, and as long as they don't contain animal products I'll lose weight!
zepearl 4y ago
> FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger... I tried two burgers 1-2 years ago: when I opened the package I smelled alcohol, the same while frying them in the pan and while eating them (I cooked them "medium/well done" without cheese nor anything else as I was curious and just wanted to try this stuff out) => is this normal? Asking because I never read anywhere anything that mentioned this... . (btw. I'm in Switzerland, so maaaybe here the product is "different" to comply with the country's regulations..., just a wild guess). In the end I didn't like it because of that smell (I'm in general ok with alcohol, I'm drinking a beer right now), the texture and taste was acceptable/good.

ghostpepper 4y ago

What do you see as the benefit of reducing red meat to once a month? There was a widely-publicized article recently questioning some "well-established" science that had, previously for decades, linked red meat to higher rates of heart disease, etc.

Double_a_92 4y ago
I don't think it's about health, it's about not having to unnecessarily farm cows.
hcks 4y ago
Could you or someone link this article please? Thanks
- effingwewt 4y ago
  Here[1] is the article post on HN and the OP[2] on case you want the article directly. Tangentially, seems to me the science on every food seems to change every few years. Sugar, fat, MSG, eggs, butter, meat, fish, milk, the list goes on. As others in both this and the linked article stated, I think just reducing consumption would drastically reduce the amount of necessary livestock, which would reduce everything else in the chain. I definitely became more conscious of what I consume from all the secondary and tertiary effects. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33655321 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33655321 [2] https://bigthink.com/health/red-meat-cancer-not-health-risk/ https://bigthink.com/health/red-meat-cancer-not-health-risk/
  - mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
    I tried to do a deepdive on nutrition a few years back when I went on a diet. My conclusion was that there are far too many confounding factors for any population studies to be taken too seriously. That's why the field is so vogueish like you point out. Long term, highly controlled trials are more useful, but much rarer.
willsmith72 4y ago
Not a vege, but that study doesn't really say say as much the article made it out. The core thesis was essentially: "Eating red meat at most causes increases in risks of cancer and similar by 15%. If people replace calories that could come from vegetables with red meat, that risk gets worse because they're eating less vegetables" So yeah, eating red meat isn't that bad, but if it reduces your vegetable intake significantly, it probably is worse for you. And it's harder to get the right amount of vegetables if you eat a lot of red meat (unless you just want to increase your calorie intake)
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  Same with sugar. For most people, Sugar is either pushing you over your calorie threshold or it’s displacing healthier food you could have eaten instead which is reason enough to reduce it.

braingenious 4y ago

What is “burger sauce”?

bagels 4y ago
Ketchup + mayo oftentimes
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
  Needs mustard too.
- braingenious 4y ago
  I thought that was fry sauce.
- ThunderSizzle 4y ago
  Basically a sugar mixture then? We already get enough unintended sugars.
  - unethical_ban 4y ago
    So you eat your burgers dry?
    - Loughla 4y ago
      Pickles, lettuce, tomato, a whole fried egg. All of these are options that don't include sugar. There are options outside of ketchup (corn syrup) and mayo (probably corn syrup). Except the pickles. I bet those have sugar. But I'll fight anyone who eats hamburgers without pickles.
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > Pickles, lettuce, tomato, a whole fried egg. All of these are options that don't include sugar. All of those except for the egg have sugars as a major source of calories, they just aren't, except for the egg, particularly calorie dense.

musiciangames 4y ago

> sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef Hasn't the dietary sodium thing been found to be a non-issue, except for a few individuals with high blood pressure? https://www.cochrane.org/CD004022/HTN_effect-low-salt-diet-blood-pressure-and-some-hormones-and-lipids-people-normal-and-elevated-blood https://www.cochrane.org/CD004022/HTN_effect-low-salt-diet-b...

Traubenfuchs 4y ago
High sodium diets are "associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" "in a hypertension-independent manner". They are associated, among many other ailments, with strokes, cancer and heart failure. https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/sodium/effects-of-excess-sodium-infographic https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/
- musiciangames 4y ago
  Thanks for the input. Not sure to what extent the links support the assertion > "associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" "in a hypertension-independent manner" > https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-s... Excess levels of sodium/salt *may* put you at risk for: Excess levels of sodium/salt *may* cause increased water retention that leads to: (my emphasis) > https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32738302/ "Some studies have shown that HSD has a positive correlation with albuminuria, an important risk factor for the development and progression of kidney disease in a hypertension-independent manner " A correlation with a risk factor .It asserts "is associated with chronic degenerative diseases including renal diseases" with no citation. The paper itself is about feeding a high-salt diet to mice. I'll see your citations, and raise you: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33351135/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33351135/ Sodium intake, life expectancy, and all-cause mortality "Our observation of sodium intake correlating positively with life expectancy and inversely with all-cause mortality worldwide and in high-income countries argues against dietary sodium intake being a culprit of curtailing life span or a risk factor for premature death. These data are observational and should not be used as a base for nutritional interventions".

skerit 4y ago

> What _did_ eventually get me to stop making Beyond Burgers is that the fat and sodium content is as bad or worse than just plain regular beef Exactly. As a vegetarian, I do choose a Beyond burger when I go to a burger restaurant, but I never buy it to make at home. There are healthier alternatives that are also delicious.

Pxtl 4y ago
For me it's the exact opposite. I'm a vegetarian for ideological reasons, not health ones. I'm not the healthy kind of vegetarian at all. For me the only flaw of Beyond Meat is that it's a bit too salty and it sits a bit funny (weird-flavored burps after you eat it). They have a solidly good product, it's a shame they can't make it work. As a parent one big problem I had with them was that for home use they only sell the huge quarter pound patties (while they do shrink when you cook them, they do so less than beef) which were too much for my kid. I had to thaw them, slice them down the middle (which is tricky) and cook the two halves separately. They're much too big for a standard burger bun. It seems obvious they're going for a prestigious form-factor but missing out on being able to sell something more universal.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

> FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger that's easy to prepare that is close in texture to a real burger - if you use a burger sauce and cheese like most recipes for non-vegans do, it tastes pretty close. I even liked it so much I'd order it at restaurants wherever available and bought a few shares since I figured they'd do well. You are the target demographic; you're looking for a vegetarian or vegan meat analog so you can continue your existing eating habits and the meals you're familiar with, instead of the more difficult task of changing your lifestyle and diet. That said, chips are vegan.

jwally 4y ago

1000% this! IMHO, Health / Nutrition is very K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid), but it feels like so many people get caught in the trap of finding "one weird trick" to keep them lean / healthy and then setting common sense on fire - so long as they obey that rule. > Vegans are healthier and leaner than Omnivores. Therefore I can eat pastries for breakfast lunch and dinner, and as long as they don't contain animal products I'll lose weight!

zepearl 4y ago

> FWIW, I've always liked Beyond Meat as a "good enough" substitution for a beef burger... I tried two burgers 1-2 years ago: when I opened the package I smelled alcohol, the same while frying them in the pan and while eating them (I cooked them "medium/well done" without cheese nor anything else as I was curious and just wanted to try this stuff out) => is this normal? Asking because I never read anywhere anything that mentioned this... . (btw. I'm in Switzerland, so maaaybe here the product is "different" to comply with the country's regulations..., just a wild guess). In the end I didn't like it because of that smell (I'm in general ok with alcohol, I'm drinking a beer right now), the texture and taste was acceptable/good.