4 ms·

One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. IMHO this is the wrong approach

One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. IMHO this is the wrong approach and hardly ever works well or relies on luxury products like beyond meat(1). The best vegetarian food I had eaten was such which was designed as vegetarian food, not as a dish with meat and then modified to somehow work. Pretty much the only times I ended up with vegetarian food which tasted disgusting was with meat replacement products. At the same time beyond meat isn't the only producer of meat replacement products, and you don't need massive international cooperation for them either. For example the local butcher around where I live has meat replacement products, self-made based on the recipe they licensed from another smallish non-international company. It doesn't taste like meat, but it tastes good and has properties similar but not quite like meat wrt. taste direction, consistency and texture so you can swap it in to get a quite different but still good tasting result (through it's not stake like, more pulled pork like, suited for dishes which need pulled pork or minced meat). (1): Now part of the reason why it is more expensive then meat is probably state subventions but on a pure resource level meat is much more resource intensive to produce then most vegetarian stuff.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago
Completely agree with you. I'm not a vegetarian at all and honestly most of my dinners are vegetarian anyway because half the time I'm just too lazy to deal with meat. Plenty of delicious cheese centered meals, for instance. Mac and cheese can be made in a million different ways. Sometimes I'll make my chicken rice and mushroom casserole but throw in legumes instead. Lots of great things to make with eggs for protein too. I've accidentally cut my meat consumption down drastically through sheer laziness, so I always find it puzzling that people make a fuzz about it.
pea 4y ago
I was wondering this the other day when eating a saag paneer curry instead of my normal meat-based order: why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options which can be treated similarly to how we treat meat in cooking. Paneer is not 'trying to be chicken', but it can be put in a curry or fried, so can serve a similar purpose -- but is distinctly delicious in its own right!
- cnity 4y ago
  Same with tofu. I have fried tofu sandwiches with gochujang and spring onions. Treat your meat-free foods as the unique items they all are!
- imdsm 4y ago
  A chap I worked with years ago had his wife cook us some food for a week or so, and brought it into work each day in little plastic tubs. Lentil curry, chickpea curry, all sorts of vegetarian food, and it was amazing. One was even a soya-chunk curry, which tasted better than meat, and zero chance of bones. I think playing to the strengths of the vegetables is always going to work better than creating stuff like facon and such. It always looks so...unappealing. That being said, perhaps the reason we eat so much meat in the UK & USA is because we're also taught that to cook vegetables you boil them...in water. Nowhere else in the world do they think it's a good idea to do this. They have flavours, they incorporate vegetables into meals, not just a spoon of boiled carrots, a spoon of boiled broccoli, and a spoon of peas.
- parkingrift 4y ago
  >why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options Because meat tastes better, and I want it. If I can have that taste without an animal involved then it’s all the better. If not then I’ll continue eating meat. Vegetarians and vegans just don’t seem to understand this. Food is all about personal preference but the extreme majority of people eat and enjoy meat. They enjoy it because they find it delicious. If people felt vegetarian options were as delicious as meat we wouldn’t be having these discussions. People who don’t have a taste preference for meat are obviously not the target for plant based meat.
  - maccard 4y ago
    Vegetarian here, you're wrong. Boil a chicken breast and eat it and tell me it tastes better. If you handed me a plate of boiled peas and a spoon I'd probably hand them back to you too. Good _food_ tastes good. Most times you eat it's complemented with sauces, marinades, etc. Cooking vegetarian requires the same effort. People who slather a Midwestern meatloaf in ketchup likely wouldn't even notice if it was vegetarian unless you told them. > If people felt vegetarian options were as delicious as meat we wouldn’t be having these discussions. Meat is a luxury and a status symbol. Eating meat every day is something my parents did because they could afford to because their parents _couldnt_. I'm not going to sit here and tell you a bone in rib eye with a pan sauce isn't delicious - it is, but so is a paneer masala, or huevos rancheros.
ls15 4y ago
Food is highly cultural and habitual. Changing their diet can take years for some people. Also, many people probably never have tried many truly vegetarian dishes, so there is a learning curve.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  I for one really gained an appreciation for curry, and since they're stewed to fuck anyway you barely notice whether or not there's meat in them. I hope that people trying to improve their diets will discover spices beyond salt, pepper and chillies, lol. I do believe part of it is that western diets are more about the ingredients and the textures / mouthfeels / flavors thereof than spices. Which is ironic, given the whole colonization and world spice trade thing from some time ago.
JeremyNT 4y ago
> One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. As somebody who does not really eat meat but is very concerned about protein targets, this isn't quite so simple. Various meats (chicken, some fish) can be extremely cheap extremely high protein foods. When you don't have these to work with you need to think a lot more about your options. I often "replace" a meat protein option with seitan, tofu, or tempeh just to hit my goals. These things aren't engineered in a lab the same way that Beyond etc have been, but they are processed/made and fill the "chunk of protein" requirement in a way that whole plants struggle with. If you don't toss in a "chunk of protein," you need to be incredibly careful working in proteins. Anything with a low protein/calorie ratio becomes difficult to work in. Cheap staples like pasta and rice are even questionable because their protein ratios are relatively low, and then you find yourself eating only beans... This is easier for vegetarians who eat cheese and eggs, of course. Nutritionally these things act more like meat and you can use them as such.

mtlmtlmtlmtl 4y ago

Completely agree with you. I'm not a vegetarian at all and honestly most of my dinners are vegetarian anyway because half the time I'm just too lazy to deal with meat. Plenty of delicious cheese centered meals, for instance. Mac and cheese can be made in a million different ways. Sometimes I'll make my chicken rice and mushroom casserole but throw in legumes instead. Lots of great things to make with eggs for protein too. I've accidentally cut my meat consumption down drastically through sheer laziness, so I always find it puzzling that people make a fuzz about it.

pea 4y ago

I was wondering this the other day when eating a saag paneer curry instead of my normal meat-based order: why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options which can be treated similarly to how we treat meat in cooking. Paneer is not 'trying to be chicken', but it can be put in a curry or fried, so can serve a similar purpose -- but is distinctly delicious in its own right!

cnity 4y ago
Same with tofu. I have fried tofu sandwiches with gochujang and spring onions. Treat your meat-free foods as the unique items they all are!
imdsm 4y ago
A chap I worked with years ago had his wife cook us some food for a week or so, and brought it into work each day in little plastic tubs. Lentil curry, chickpea curry, all sorts of vegetarian food, and it was amazing. One was even a soya-chunk curry, which tasted better than meat, and zero chance of bones. I think playing to the strengths of the vegetables is always going to work better than creating stuff like facon and such. It always looks so...unappealing. That being said, perhaps the reason we eat so much meat in the UK & USA is because we're also taught that to cook vegetables you boil them...in water. Nowhere else in the world do they think it's a good idea to do this. They have flavours, they incorporate vegetables into meals, not just a spoon of boiled carrots, a spoon of boiled broccoli, and a spoon of peas.
parkingrift 4y ago
>why would anyone go through the motions to have fake chicken when you have multitudes of vegetarian options Because meat tastes better, and I want it. If I can have that taste without an animal involved then it’s all the better. If not then I’ll continue eating meat. Vegetarians and vegans just don’t seem to understand this. Food is all about personal preference but the extreme majority of people eat and enjoy meat. They enjoy it because they find it delicious. If people felt vegetarian options were as delicious as meat we wouldn’t be having these discussions. People who don’t have a taste preference for meat are obviously not the target for plant based meat.
- maccard 4y ago
  Vegetarian here, you're wrong. Boil a chicken breast and eat it and tell me it tastes better. If you handed me a plate of boiled peas and a spoon I'd probably hand them back to you too. Good _food_ tastes good. Most times you eat it's complemented with sauces, marinades, etc. Cooking vegetarian requires the same effort. People who slather a Midwestern meatloaf in ketchup likely wouldn't even notice if it was vegetarian unless you told them. > If people felt vegetarian options were as delicious as meat we wouldn’t be having these discussions. Meat is a luxury and a status symbol. Eating meat every day is something my parents did because they could afford to because their parents _couldnt_. I'm not going to sit here and tell you a bone in rib eye with a pan sauce isn't delicious - it is, but so is a paneer masala, or huevos rancheros.

ls15 4y ago

Food is highly cultural and habitual. Changing their diet can take years for some people. Also, many people probably never have tried many truly vegetarian dishes, so there is a learning curve.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago
I for one really gained an appreciation for curry, and since they're stewed to fuck anyway you barely notice whether or not there's meat in them. I hope that people trying to improve their diets will discover spices beyond salt, pepper and chillies, lol. I do believe part of it is that western diets are more about the ingredients and the textures / mouthfeels / flavors thereof than spices. Which is ironic, given the whole colonization and world spice trade thing from some time ago.

JeremyNT 4y ago

> One thing I'm seeing all the time is people approaching vegetarian food by removing the meat and adding something else instead. As somebody who does not really eat meat but is very concerned about protein targets, this isn't quite so simple. Various meats (chicken, some fish) can be extremely cheap extremely high protein foods. When you don't have these to work with you need to think a lot more about your options. I often "replace" a meat protein option with seitan, tofu, or tempeh just to hit my goals. These things aren't engineered in a lab the same way that Beyond etc have been, but they are processed/made and fill the "chunk of protein" requirement in a way that whole plants struggle with. If you don't toss in a "chunk of protein," you need to be incredibly careful working in proteins. Anything with a low protein/calorie ratio becomes difficult to work in. Cheap staples like pasta and rice are even questionable because their protein ratios are relatively low, and then you find yourself eating only beans... This is easier for vegetarians who eat cheese and eggs, of course. Nutritionally these things act more like meat and you can use them as such.