5 ms·

> Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... While true, we are talking about cropland, not agriculture land (e.g. pastures). Nowhere near

> Half of the world’s habitable land is used for agriculture ... While true, we are talking about cropland, not agriculture land (e.g. pastures). Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland.

myshpa 4y ago
Yes, it is ... simply deforest more land for our animals ... we could fatten ourselves so much more ;) https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/land-use
- randomdata 4y ago
  Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland.
  - myshpa 4y ago
    Not suitable, but used for plant-based food. Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land (37 mil. km2), which supplies only 18% of global calories and 37% of proteins. Those 23% (11 mil. km2) of agriculture land, crop land, is currently producing 82% of global calories and 63% of proteins. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-graphic.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g...
    - randomdata 4y ago
      > Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land Right, and since we're only talking about cropland, that 77% has no relevance to the discussion. That it keeps coming up is rather bizarre. Indeed, if you keep pounding a square peg into a round hold hard enough it may eventually go in, but one sure does look silly for doing it in the first place.
      - myshpa 4y ago
        That 77% CONTAINS crop land. https://www.renewmethod.com/post/what-is-arable-land https://www.renewmethod.com/post/what-is-arable-land "Arable land is classified as land that can be plowed for the purpose of growing crops." Please, look at the graph one more time.
        randomdata 4y ago
        Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific. Your weird tangent has no relevance.
        myshpa 4y ago
        > Probably not without radically changing how we grow plants for human consumption ... Wrong. > ~60% of the soybeans are intended for direct human consumption and ~40% for animal consumption. I imagine that is not atypical Wrong. > around 35% of the output ... for animal consumption, which is effectively what the real world data also shows ... Wrong. > Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland. Wrong. > Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland. Wrong. > Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific Wrong (in the context of) https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-graphic.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g... > Your weird tangent ... It's called logic. I give up.
      - myshpa 4y ago
        You're the only one in this discussion talking about crop land. To focuse solely on crop land and ignore pastures is misleading. > Eloff: ... won't need to raise animals or food for animals ... we could rewild huge parts of the Earth > randomdata: probably not ... 36% of the cropland is used for animal food ... Even if we kept all the arable land for human consumption (to compensate for missing meat, assuming the lab-grown meat will take some time to scale) we'd have 3.3 billion hectares of pastures to rewild/reforest. Or we could reforest those 35% of arable land we use for growing animal feed and instead use a fraction of pastures for nuts/fruit production. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-pasture https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-pasture Forests cover 40 mil. km2, and animal agriculture takes 37 mil. km2. Majority of plant-based foods is produced on 11 mil. km2. By switching to plant-based we could increase forest cover from 40 mil. km2 to 70+ mil. km2. "We might even address the very real disaster scenarios presently threatening the world with questions like these: "What if you could make a simple and compassionate change in your life that would increase available farmland, increase available clean water, reduce rainforest destruction, reduce greenhouse gas production, reduce the threat from antibiotic-resistant bacteria, decrease land and waterway pollution, prevent creation of ocean dead zones, end your participation in the deaths of sentient individuals and increase overall human health by switching to a plant-based diet? Would you do it?” This is the reality we actually live in, and this is the choice each one of us faces." https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-would-eat-meat-on-a-desert-island https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-would-eat-meat-on-a... OFF-TOPIC: we should reforest some deserts/barren areas as well

myshpa 4y ago

Yes, it is ... simply deforest more land for our animals ... we could fatten ourselves so much more ;) https://ourworldindata.org/land-use https://ourworldindata.org/land-use

randomdata 4y ago
Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland.
- myshpa 4y ago
  Not suitable, but used for plant-based food. Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land (37 mil. km2), which supplies only 18% of global calories and 37% of proteins. Those 23% (11 mil. km2) of agriculture land, crop land, is currently producing 82% of global calories and 63% of proteins. https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-graphic.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g...
  - randomdata 4y ago
    > Other arable land is used for animal feed production, and together with grazing land represents the other 77% of agriculture land Right, and since we're only talking about cropland, that 77% has no relevance to the discussion. That it keeps coming up is rather bizarre. Indeed, if you keep pounding a square peg into a round hold hard enough it may eventually go in, but one sure does look silly for doing it in the first place.
    - myshpa 4y ago
      That 77% CONTAINS crop land. https://www.renewmethod.com/post/what-is-arable-land https://www.renewmethod.com/post/what-is-arable-land "Arable land is classified as land that can be plowed for the purpose of growing crops." Please, look at the graph one more time.
      - randomdata 4y ago
        Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific. Your weird tangent has no relevance.
        myshpa 4y ago
        > Probably not without radically changing how we grow plants for human consumption ... Wrong. > ~60% of the soybeans are intended for direct human consumption and ~40% for animal consumption. I imagine that is not atypical Wrong. > around 35% of the output ... for animal consumption, which is effectively what the real world data also shows ... Wrong. > Nowhere near 50% of the world's land area is suitable for cropland. Wrong. > Your own link suggests that only 23% of agricultural lands are suitable for cropland. Wrong. > Arable land includes meadows, pastures, etc. Animals can (and do) eat from those lands, but cropland is more specific Wrong (in the context of) https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-graphic.png https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Global-land-use-g... > Your weird tangent ... It's called logic. I give up.
    - myshpa 4y ago
      You're the only one in this discussion talking about crop land. To focuse solely on crop land and ignore pastures is misleading. > Eloff: ... won't need to raise animals or food for animals ... we could rewild huge parts of the Earth > randomdata: probably not ... 36% of the cropland is used for animal food ... Even if we kept all the arable land for human consumption (to compensate for missing meat, assuming the lab-grown meat will take some time to scale) we'd have 3.3 billion hectares of pastures to rewild/reforest. Or we could reforest those 35% of arable land we use for growing animal feed and instead use a fraction of pastures for nuts/fruit production. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-pasture https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-pasture Forests cover 40 mil. km2, and animal agriculture takes 37 mil. km2. Majority of plant-based foods is produced on 11 mil. km2. By switching to plant-based we could increase forest cover from 40 mil. km2 to 70+ mil. km2. "We might even address the very real disaster scenarios presently threatening the world with questions like these: "What if you could make a simple and compassionate change in your life that would increase available farmland, increase available clean water, reduce rainforest destruction, reduce greenhouse gas production, reduce the threat from antibiotic-resistant bacteria, decrease land and waterway pollution, prevent creation of ocean dead zones, end your participation in the deaths of sentient individuals and increase overall human health by switching to a plant-based diet? Would you do it?” This is the reality we actually live in, and this is the choice each one of us faces." https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-would-eat-meat-on-a-desert-island https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/vegans-would-eat-meat-on-a... OFF-TOPIC: we should reforest some deserts/barren areas as well