4 ms·

Not to be mean, but from my reading this needs Heroku free tier which no longer exists? I am very sorry if I got that wrong.

quickthrower2 4y ago
NKOTB: https://neon.tech/ https://neon.tech/ Free Tier includes: compute up to 1 vCPU / 256 MB storage up to 10 GiB 3 projects per user
- judge2020 4y ago
  Doesn't look like you're the owner, but are there any notable clients using this service? With Heroku it was legit enough that you knew enough enterprise users were subsidizing the free tier to where it won't just disappear overnight.
  - quickthrower2 4y ago
    No idea. This is an early stage startup so who knows. But if you need guarantees (it ain’t a hobby project) then best to just pay for the service from any of the big or small clouds.
- boomskats 4y ago
  Neon is fresh out of private beta (or should be soon). I can't wait to play with it. However they're all about Hasura lately rather than PostgREST, which this article talks about. Nikita, their CEO, was a guest on the Changelog[0] podcast a month or so ago. Well worth a listen, great episode. [0] https://changelog.com/podcast/510 https://changelog.com/podcast/510
  - nikita 4y ago
    Out of private beta in the 6th of December
  - cpursley 4y ago
    Supabase requires Postgres logical replication which Neon doesn't quite have yet have (but it's on the roadmap) https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/219 https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/... I'm also really excited about Neon. My dream stack is Neon (Postgres) + ReadySet (database caching proxy) + Supabase.
    - boomskats 4y ago
      Interesting. I assume Supabase requires it because supabase/realtime depends on it? Personally I'm more interested in vanilla PostgREST than Supabase's implementation of it, or their realtime implementation. It seems really cool but I'm not 100% sold on their ability to evaluate complex RLS rules, which is an important one for me. ReadySet looks cool, I'll check it out. Thanks!
      - cpursley 4y ago
        That's right (regarding listening to the WAL - replication). I actually just stole that part of the Supabase realtime code for my own lib (so I can do logic in Elixir). I haven't used their role based stuff but it looks pretty good.
      - kiwicopple 4y ago
        > I'm not 100% sold on their ability to evaluate complex RLS rules You don’t need to be sold on our ability - all rules are run on the database itself. Supabase is just Postgres, we don’t run any forks. We run vanilla PostgREST too (behind a proxy)
        boomskats 4y ago
        I've always known that you run vanilla PostgREST, and that it evaluates RLS in-pg, and it all works great. However when I first looked at walrus[0] a while back (18 months ago?), I couldn't quite figure out what the mechanism of action was, i.e. whether the RLS rules were being evaluated in the database or being parsed in from the DDL and then (partially?) reinterpreted by your WAL subscriber. I hope that explains my comment. I've had another brief look at that repo, and either you've clarified a few things since I last looked at it, or I didn't look at it closely enough in the first place. It makes far more sense to me now, the impersonation + re-query mechanism puts me at 100%. Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. [0]: https://github.com/supabase/walrus https://github.com/supabase/walrus
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Edit: that was beta free tier. might change.
chairmanwow1 4y ago
Render is a fantastic replacement
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  No free psql tier
  - selcuka 4y ago
    Fly supports PostgreSQL [1], but it's not managed as you would expect. [1] https://fly.io/docs/postgres/getting-started/what-you-should-know/ https://fly.io/docs/postgres/getting-started/what-you-should...
    - langsoul-com 4y ago
      Use Laravel to generate the api. The boilerplate get you 90% of the way. Host laravel and pgsql on fly for free. Could do other things like directus (handles the api gen), planetscale has free mysql tier or even using airtable as the db, it provides the api part.
      - selcuka 4y ago
        Sorry, what I meant by "not managed" was they just support PostgreSQL as in "yet another executable running on their containers", so they don't actually optimise or configure PostgreSQL for you. I find Eloquent's approach to disconnect models from migrations a bit dangerous, but it could be me as I don't have much experience with Laravel. PlanetScale/Vitess doesn't support foreign keys, which is nice for distributed (planet scale, ha!) apps, but could be a problem for certain types of applications. I'd rather stick with (stock-ish) PostgreSQL.
edmundsauto 4y ago
Supabase has a free tier with all this included, plus more. It's the best install of postgres I've seen and I'm obsessed with how it makes triggers, auth, etc., all included.
- rmason 4y ago
  Did a user group presentation on Supabase, no one in the audience had ever heard of it. I came away quite impressed. Plan on building a complex API with it soon. If I was currently employed as a backend developer I'd be worried.
  - cpursley 4y ago
    Don't worry, somebody still has to design all the database tables/relations, views, triggers, etc. Which means we all become better database developers, which is a very good thing. Also, these tools can't handle certain back end logic (ie, API interactions and integrations, long running processes, etc). Which is the complex bit, anyways.
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    This just removes the need for some backend engineering, but will leave the actual hard work (schema design, etc) More and more, developers need to add value to the business, instead of being the key holders of arcane invocations. It used to be that knowing how to use a computer was a technical skills; now it’s evolved into understanding the business.
- is_true 4y ago
  I think they should create a tier between the free and pro with a price of USD5 that doesn't pause projects and has backups
  - edmundsauto 4y ago
    Agree on the backups piece, that should even be in the free plan as that much space is not likely to be expensive if they used cold storage. Otoh, if you aren’t sending 1 request per week to an installation, it’s really not active at all. The overheard of supporting this niche is probably too much for a company that clearly is in ruthless prioritization mode.
tptacek 4y ago
Bunch of providers have free tiers.

quickthrower2 4y ago

NKOTB: https://neon.tech/ https://neon.tech/ Free Tier includes: compute up to 1 vCPU / 256 MB storage up to 10 GiB 3 projects per user

judge2020 4y ago
Doesn't look like you're the owner, but are there any notable clients using this service? With Heroku it was legit enough that you knew enough enterprise users were subsidizing the free tier to where it won't just disappear overnight.
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  No idea. This is an early stage startup so who knows. But if you need guarantees (it ain’t a hobby project) then best to just pay for the service from any of the big or small clouds.
boomskats 4y ago
Neon is fresh out of private beta (or should be soon). I can't wait to play with it. However they're all about Hasura lately rather than PostgREST, which this article talks about. Nikita, their CEO, was a guest on the Changelog[0] podcast a month or so ago. Well worth a listen, great episode. [0] https://changelog.com/podcast/510 https://changelog.com/podcast/510
- nikita 4y ago
  Out of private beta in the 6th of December
- cpursley 4y ago
  Supabase requires Postgres logical replication which Neon doesn't quite have yet have (but it's on the roadmap) https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/219 https://community.neon.tech/t/plans-for-logical-replication/... I'm also really excited about Neon. My dream stack is Neon (Postgres) + ReadySet (database caching proxy) + Supabase.
  - boomskats 4y ago
    Interesting. I assume Supabase requires it because supabase/realtime depends on it? Personally I'm more interested in vanilla PostgREST than Supabase's implementation of it, or their realtime implementation. It seems really cool but I'm not 100% sold on their ability to evaluate complex RLS rules, which is an important one for me. ReadySet looks cool, I'll check it out. Thanks!
    - cpursley 4y ago
      That's right (regarding listening to the WAL - replication). I actually just stole that part of the Supabase realtime code for my own lib (so I can do logic in Elixir). I haven't used their role based stuff but it looks pretty good.
    - kiwicopple 4y ago
      > I'm not 100% sold on their ability to evaluate complex RLS rules You don’t need to be sold on our ability - all rules are run on the database itself. Supabase is just Postgres, we don’t run any forks. We run vanilla PostgREST too (behind a proxy)
      - boomskats 4y ago
        I've always known that you run vanilla PostgREST, and that it evaluates RLS in-pg, and it all works great. However when I first looked at walrus[0] a while back (18 months ago?), I couldn't quite figure out what the mechanism of action was, i.e. whether the RLS rules were being evaluated in the database or being parsed in from the DDL and then (partially?) reinterpreted by your WAL subscriber. I hope that explains my comment. I've had another brief look at that repo, and either you've clarified a few things since I last looked at it, or I didn't look at it closely enough in the first place. It makes far more sense to me now, the impersonation + re-query mechanism puts me at 100%. Thanks for the response, I appreciate it. [0]: https://github.com/supabase/walrus https://github.com/supabase/walrus
quickthrower2 4y ago
Edit: that was beta free tier. might change.

chairmanwow1 4y ago

Render is a fantastic replacement

quickthrower2 4y ago
No free psql tier
- selcuka 4y ago
  Fly supports PostgreSQL [1], but it's not managed as you would expect. [1] https://fly.io/docs/postgres/getting-started/what-you-should-know/ https://fly.io/docs/postgres/getting-started/what-you-should...
  - langsoul-com 4y ago
    Use Laravel to generate the api. The boilerplate get you 90% of the way. Host laravel and pgsql on fly for free. Could do other things like directus (handles the api gen), planetscale has free mysql tier or even using airtable as the db, it provides the api part.
    - selcuka 4y ago
      Sorry, what I meant by "not managed" was they just support PostgreSQL as in "yet another executable running on their containers", so they don't actually optimise or configure PostgreSQL for you. I find Eloquent's approach to disconnect models from migrations a bit dangerous, but it could be me as I don't have much experience with Laravel. PlanetScale/Vitess doesn't support foreign keys, which is nice for distributed (planet scale, ha!) apps, but could be a problem for certain types of applications. I'd rather stick with (stock-ish) PostgreSQL.

edmundsauto 4y ago

Supabase has a free tier with all this included, plus more. It's the best install of postgres I've seen and I'm obsessed with how it makes triggers, auth, etc., all included.

rmason 4y ago
Did a user group presentation on Supabase, no one in the audience had ever heard of it. I came away quite impressed. Plan on building a complex API with it soon. If I was currently employed as a backend developer I'd be worried.
- cpursley 4y ago
  Don't worry, somebody still has to design all the database tables/relations, views, triggers, etc. Which means we all become better database developers, which is a very good thing. Also, these tools can't handle certain back end logic (ie, API interactions and integrations, long running processes, etc). Which is the complex bit, anyways.
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  This just removes the need for some backend engineering, but will leave the actual hard work (schema design, etc) More and more, developers need to add value to the business, instead of being the key holders of arcane invocations. It used to be that knowing how to use a computer was a technical skills; now it’s evolved into understanding the business.
is_true 4y ago
I think they should create a tier between the free and pro with a price of USD5 that doesn't pause projects and has backups
- edmundsauto 4y ago
  Agree on the backups piece, that should even be in the free plan as that much space is not likely to be expensive if they used cold storage. Otoh, if you aren’t sending 1 request per week to an installation, it’s really not active at all. The overheard of supporting this niche is probably too much for a company that clearly is in ruthless prioritization mode.

tptacek 4y ago

Bunch of providers have free tiers.