4 ms·

>I am against residential housing being sold to non citizens/permanent residents. How to say xenophobic without saying it.. Any tax payer should be treated equ

by vaidhy 4y ago

>I am against residential housing being sold to non citizens/permanent residents. How to say xenophobic without saying it.. Any tax payer should be treated equally..

sokoloff 4y ago
Assuming the most logical reading of that is (non-(citizens/permanent residents)), those are mostly all tax payers [either current or near-future]. I agree it's abhorrent xenophobic policy if meant to be ((non-citizens)/(permanent residents)), but I read it as naturally meaning the other.
- twblalock 4y ago
  It's xenophobic either way.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Yeah it's really not, it's about trying to keep the housing market about housing the local population rather than allowing in investor funds from overseas which warps it, changes what gets built at what price, and drives people into rental rather than ownership. If you don't have the right to live somewhere, why should you be competing in the housing market and pricing out the local population? Particularly if the nature of your competition is to keep properties mostly empty while speculating on price (see, for example, a lot of the high-end apartment development in London). It's not xenophobia, it's a fundamental disagreement in what housing is actually for.
    - twblalock 4y ago
      No, it's a fundamental agreement about what property rights are really for.
      - Nursie 4y ago
        Not everyone agrees that property rights are absolute or supreme. Some of us think markets should be set up to help people, not the other way around, particularly where human needs like housing are involved. It's certainly not clear that a preference for housing people over capital is 'xenophobic'.
andrewstuart 4y ago
Xenophobic - what a load of garbage. It's well known that countries have policies on whether or not foreign buyers are allowed to buy residential real estate. Me having an opinion on that does not make me xenophobic. >>Any tax payer should be treated equally.. Foreign buyers are not taxpayers in Australia/Canada/USA. "The Prohibition on the Purchase of Residential Property by Non-Canadians Act (Act) comes into force on January 1, 2023. It prohibits the purchase of residential property in Canada by non-Canadians unless they are exempted by the Act or its regulations, or the purchase is made in certain circumstances specified in the regulations." https://www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/Canadas-Ban-on-Foreign-Home-Buyers-Soon-In-Effect-Update-and-Whats-Next https://www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/Canadas-Ban-on-Fo... In Australia and Canada, Chinese money has flooded our real estate markets - much of that money is anecdotally said to be the gains of corrupt officials and people trying to exit the country due to the oppressive regime. "Chinese investors flooding billions into the Australian real estate market prompt money laundering fears" https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/chinese-investors-flooding-billions-into-australian-real-estate/6841816 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/chinese-investors-flo... This outflow of capital from China, pouring into Australia and Canada pushes up prices, meaning that people who are not citizens or permanent residents are buying local real estate and inflating prices. Every house owned by a non citizen/permanent resident means one more that cannot be bought by a citizen/permanent resident. Why should people from other countries be entitled to own our residential real estate? If you believe the purpose of housing is to house the citizens and permanent residents then there's every reason to close out foreign buyers, as Canada has done: https://www.immigration.ca/canada-foreign-buyer-ban-starting-in-january-but-permanent-and-temporary-residents-exempt/ https://www.immigration.ca/canada-foreign-buyer-ban-starting... https://www.cwilson.com/not-for-sale-canada-closes-the-door-to-foreign-home-ownership/ https://www.cwilson.com/not-for-sale-canada-closes-the-door-... "Demand for U.S. homes from foreign investors is pushing up home prices, exacerbating concerns over housing affordability" "Housing markets are preferred destinations for foreign investors looking for yields, vacation homes or safe havens, or for those dodging tax restraints and corruption crackdowns in their home countries. But demand for U.S. homes from foreign investors, especially Chinese, pushes up home prices, exacerbating concerns over housing affordability, according to new research from Wharton." https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/foreign-purchases-u-s-homes-impact-prices-supply/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/foreign-purchase...

by vaidhy 4y ago

>I am against residential housing being sold to non citizens/permanent residents. How to say xenophobic without saying it.. Any tax payer should be treated equally..

sokoloff 4y ago

Assuming the most logical reading of that is (non-(citizens/permanent residents)), those are mostly all tax payers [either current or near-future]. I agree it's abhorrent xenophobic policy if meant to be ((non-citizens)/(permanent residents)), but I read it as naturally meaning the other.

twblalock 4y ago
It's xenophobic either way.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Yeah it's really not, it's about trying to keep the housing market about housing the local population rather than allowing in investor funds from overseas which warps it, changes what gets built at what price, and drives people into rental rather than ownership. If you don't have the right to live somewhere, why should you be competing in the housing market and pricing out the local population? Particularly if the nature of your competition is to keep properties mostly empty while speculating on price (see, for example, a lot of the high-end apartment development in London). It's not xenophobia, it's a fundamental disagreement in what housing is actually for.
  - twblalock 4y ago
    No, it's a fundamental agreement about what property rights are really for.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Not everyone agrees that property rights are absolute or supreme. Some of us think markets should be set up to help people, not the other way around, particularly where human needs like housing are involved. It's certainly not clear that a preference for housing people over capital is 'xenophobic'.

andrewstuart 4y ago

Xenophobic - what a load of garbage. It's well known that countries have policies on whether or not foreign buyers are allowed to buy residential real estate. Me having an opinion on that does not make me xenophobic. >>Any tax payer should be treated equally.. Foreign buyers are not taxpayers in Australia/Canada/USA. "The Prohibition on the Purchase of Residential Property by Non-Canadians Act (Act) comes into force on January 1, 2023. It prohibits the purchase of residential property in Canada by non-Canadians unless they are exempted by the Act or its regulations, or the purchase is made in certain circumstances specified in the regulations." https://www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/Canadas-Ban-on-Foreign-Home-Buyers-Soon-In-Effect-Update-and-Whats-Next https://www.bennettjones.com/Blogs-Section/Canadas-Ban-on-Fo... In Australia and Canada, Chinese money has flooded our real estate markets - much of that money is anecdotally said to be the gains of corrupt officials and people trying to exit the country due to the oppressive regime. "Chinese investors flooding billions into the Australian real estate market prompt money laundering fears" https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/chinese-investors-flooding-billions-into-australian-real-estate/6841816 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-12/chinese-investors-flo... This outflow of capital from China, pouring into Australia and Canada pushes up prices, meaning that people who are not citizens or permanent residents are buying local real estate and inflating prices. Every house owned by a non citizen/permanent resident means one more that cannot be bought by a citizen/permanent resident. Why should people from other countries be entitled to own our residential real estate? If you believe the purpose of housing is to house the citizens and permanent residents then there's every reason to close out foreign buyers, as Canada has done: https://www.immigration.ca/canada-foreign-buyer-ban-starting-in-january-but-permanent-and-temporary-residents-exempt/ https://www.immigration.ca/canada-foreign-buyer-ban-starting... https://www.cwilson.com/not-for-sale-canada-closes-the-door-to-foreign-home-ownership/ https://www.cwilson.com/not-for-sale-canada-closes-the-door-... "Demand for U.S. homes from foreign investors is pushing up home prices, exacerbating concerns over housing affordability" "Housing markets are preferred destinations for foreign investors looking for yields, vacation homes or safe havens, or for those dodging tax restraints and corruption crackdowns in their home countries. But demand for U.S. homes from foreign investors, especially Chinese, pushes up home prices, exacerbating concerns over housing affordability, according to new research from Wharton." https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/foreign-purchases-u-s-homes-impact-prices-supply/ https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/foreign-purchase...