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You're the only one bringing up Mexicans. So I'm not sure who you're complaining about. They're associated, rather than "linked" because, well, they're both i

by jbooth 15y ago

You're the only one bringing up Mexicans. So I'm not sure who you're complaining about. They're associated, rather than "linked" because, well, they're both immigration driven by a labor shortage.

yummyfajitas 15y ago
Anamax didn't bring up Mexicans, and it's not his hangup. Here is video of Obama talking about how great a startup visa is, and then tying the startup visa to comprehensive immigration reform. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/obamas-immigration-dodge/2011/07/07/gIQAyYXV2H_blog.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/obamas-...
- jbooth 15y ago
  I didn't play the video but I seriously doubt that Obama used the word "amnesty". "Low-skill immigration and amnesty" is quite clearly talking about latino immigrants. Not accusing him of being racist or anything but that's who he's talking about. Comprehensive immigration reform is needed in some form and a startup visa is one aspect of immigration reform. So it's really not outlandish to include it when talking about the subject. I'll spare you a websters-mirriam definition of comprehensive, immigration and reform. Sorry, the original comment just sounded like off-topic whining to me. Lots of putting words in people's mouths, very little contribution. EDIT: And the conservative downvote brigade has arrived. I'll just call it a day here.
  - yummyfajitas 15y ago
    So it's really not outlandish to include it when talking about the subject. If you want the startup visa to pass, there is a very good reason to do it by itself: the startup visa is likely to pass, whereas comprehensive immigration reform is not. Lots of putting words in people's mouths, very little contribution. It contributes even less to deny his claims, which are basically correct. Obama's blueprint for immigration reform does include amnesty (you need to scroll to page 3 to find it). http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/immigration_blueprint.pdf http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/imm...
    - jbooth 15y ago
      The "path to citizenship" outlined there has very little in common with what comes to mind when you say "amnesty". Read the language there, it's all about burdens on illegal immigrants and prerequisites, after which they can get in the back of the line to apply for citizenship. "Amnesty" implies something more similar to what Reagan did. Again, nobody was talking about this at all until anamax brought it up. And Obama proposing a startup visa by itself absolutely will not pass. You know why? Because it would involve Obama proposing it. See the House Republicans refusing to pass a tax cut this week.
      - anamax 15y ago
        > Read the language there, it's all about burdens on illegal immigrants and prerequisites, after which they can get in the back of the line to apply for citizenship. "back of the line"? They're starting in front of everyone who applied to immigrate, didn't get accepted, and waited until they did. Are you really arguing that it isn't amnesty because there are some conditions?
        jbooth 15y ago
        Anything that takes over a decade to successfully execute isn't quite "amnesty" by my definition. "Amnesty" is like "Hey, you're good to go!". Amnesty International isn't campaigning for prisoners to be released "about 10 years from now".
        anamax 15y ago
        There's no "decade to successfully execute" - they get legal resident status immediately after "touching base" (at most). But, you know this. Yes, they get to wait to be eligible for citizenship, just like every other legal immigrant. Are you seriously arguing that not letting them jump that line is punishment?
anamax 15y ago
> They're associated, rather than "linked" because, well, they're both immigration driven by a labor shortage. Most people understand that I'm talking about the political process, said process being how the US makes changes in immigration law. The advocates of "high skill immigration" are asking for different changes to said law than the advocates for low skill plus "forgiveness". However, they're putting both sets of changes into a single package. As to the "labor shortage", I've done farm labor and other "jobs that americans won't do". The "shortage" is a combination of wage-busting and unwillingness to pay for the relevant automation. Then again, you won't find me arguing that someone is entitled to cheap golf, to mention one of the arguments for low skill immigration.

by jbooth 15y ago

You're the only one bringing up Mexicans. So I'm not sure who you're complaining about. They're associated, rather than "linked" because, well, they're both immigration driven by a labor shortage.

yummyfajitas 15y ago

Anamax didn't bring up Mexicans, and it's not his hangup. Here is video of Obama talking about how great a startup visa is, and then tying the startup visa to comprehensive immigration reform. http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/obamas-immigration-dodge/2011/07/07/gIQAyYXV2H_blog.html http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/post/obamas-...

jbooth 15y ago
I didn't play the video but I seriously doubt that Obama used the word "amnesty". "Low-skill immigration and amnesty" is quite clearly talking about latino immigrants. Not accusing him of being racist or anything but that's who he's talking about. Comprehensive immigration reform is needed in some form and a startup visa is one aspect of immigration reform. So it's really not outlandish to include it when talking about the subject. I'll spare you a websters-mirriam definition of comprehensive, immigration and reform. Sorry, the original comment just sounded like off-topic whining to me. Lots of putting words in people's mouths, very little contribution. EDIT: And the conservative downvote brigade has arrived. I'll just call it a day here.
- yummyfajitas 15y ago
  So it's really not outlandish to include it when talking about the subject. If you want the startup visa to pass, there is a very good reason to do it by itself: the startup visa is likely to pass, whereas comprehensive immigration reform is not. Lots of putting words in people's mouths, very little contribution. It contributes even less to deny his claims, which are basically correct. Obama's blueprint for immigration reform does include amnesty (you need to scroll to page 3 to find it). http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/immigration_blueprint.pdf http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/rss_viewer/imm...
  - jbooth 15y ago
    The "path to citizenship" outlined there has very little in common with what comes to mind when you say "amnesty". Read the language there, it's all about burdens on illegal immigrants and prerequisites, after which they can get in the back of the line to apply for citizenship. "Amnesty" implies something more similar to what Reagan did. Again, nobody was talking about this at all until anamax brought it up. And Obama proposing a startup visa by itself absolutely will not pass. You know why? Because it would involve Obama proposing it. See the House Republicans refusing to pass a tax cut this week.
    - anamax 15y ago
      > Read the language there, it's all about burdens on illegal immigrants and prerequisites, after which they can get in the back of the line to apply for citizenship. "back of the line"? They're starting in front of everyone who applied to immigrate, didn't get accepted, and waited until they did. Are you really arguing that it isn't amnesty because there are some conditions?
      - jbooth 15y ago
        Anything that takes over a decade to successfully execute isn't quite "amnesty" by my definition. "Amnesty" is like "Hey, you're good to go!". Amnesty International isn't campaigning for prisoners to be released "about 10 years from now".
        anamax 15y ago
        There's no "decade to successfully execute" - they get legal resident status immediately after "touching base" (at most). But, you know this. Yes, they get to wait to be eligible for citizenship, just like every other legal immigrant. Are you seriously arguing that not letting them jump that line is punishment?

anamax 15y ago

> They're associated, rather than "linked" because, well, they're both immigration driven by a labor shortage. Most people understand that I'm talking about the political process, said process being how the US makes changes in immigration law. The advocates of "high skill immigration" are asking for different changes to said law than the advocates for low skill plus "forgiveness". However, they're putting both sets of changes into a single package. As to the "labor shortage", I've done farm labor and other "jobs that americans won't do". The "shortage" is a combination of wage-busting and unwillingness to pay for the relevant automation. Then again, you won't find me arguing that someone is entitled to cheap golf, to mention one of the arguments for low skill immigration.