4 ms·

No system is going to be perfect, how can "high-skill" immigrants be evaluated with absolute certainty that they are, in-fact, highly skilled. I am sick and tir

No system is going to be perfect, how can "high-skill" immigrants be evaluated with absolute certainty that they are, in-fact, highly skilled. I am sick and tired of employers in the U.S. viewing people with degrees from universities in third-world countries as if they are equal to a degree from the U.S (and thus possibly passing over US workers who may not have completed a degree program). I realize that some immigrants come here for college and that would validate their skills-sets, such as "if they graduate from the U.S. university with high grades, then they can stay and work" but it seems to me a lot of these supposedly highly skilled, supposedly "better than the average American" tech workers are people who were educated exclusively in another country and its not comparing apples to apples, in my opinion.

macspoofing 15y ago
>No system is going to be perfect, how can "high-skill" immigrants be evaluated with absolute certainty that they are Why do you need "absolute certainty"
- devs1010 15y ago
  Because I would at least prefer to err on the side of not hurting American-born workers, rather than err on the side of letting in incompetent "tech talent"
anghyflawn 15y ago
I find it very hard to believe that many American employers hire foreigners, with all the paperwork that entails, unless they are persuaded that the foreigner in question is indeed better than the Americans in their pool (modulo wages, but there's a wage floor for H1B, and in any case it's a question of value).
- devs1010 15y ago
  This is completely untrue, I get the feeling you haven't worked a place that has many H1B employees. All I can say is it has been quite obvious that some H1B employees were not quite as sharp as their American counterparts at some places I have worked (not saying all H1B workers, but some). Sure, some are good, but they are not all hired because they have a better skillset and are better overall than their American counterparts, this is rather ridiculous.
untog 15y ago
I am sick and tired of employers in the U.S. viewing people with degrees from universities in third-world countries as if they are equal to a degree from the U.S I, on the other hand, am sick and tired of the immigration authorities questioning my degree from the UK and refusing to confirm that it is equivalent to a US degree. Hardly third-world. But in any case, your problem is solved very easily- by firing people. At a previous job we hired a guy with a Masters from a college in New Jersey (I forget which, sadly). He was useless. We fired him. Education can get you in the door, but it can't keep you in the room. The problem with this is that hiring immigrants is more expensive and time-consuming because of the process you have to go through. Although it sounds backwards, if it was easier to hire immigrants it would be easier to fire them when they aren't as good as they say they are.
- devs1010 15y ago
  I think that the UK is considered on-par with the US, I wasn't inferring anywhere that the UK is third-world.
  - untog 15y ago
    Oh, I know. I was making a more general point that degree equivalency is just a giant mess.
opinali 15y ago
There are US organizations that certify the accreditation of foreign schools and universities, and the equivalence of their diplomas. It's the same system used by foreign students who apply to an American university. I'm not sure how well this system works, but it does exist, so if there is still space for fraud, just fix the system. Also, once again this is a problem for temp visas with their complex and expensive sponsorship deals; if you just give a green card to any high-skilled worker, if he is incompetent because his education was much below American standards, the guy is fired after the first month, problem solved. (I would support some scheme where such a new GC holder is denied social security benefits in the first X years of residence or Y years of actual employment and tax paying.)

macspoofing 15y ago

>No system is going to be perfect, how can "high-skill" immigrants be evaluated with absolute certainty that they are Why do you need "absolute certainty"

devs1010 15y ago
Because I would at least prefer to err on the side of not hurting American-born workers, rather than err on the side of letting in incompetent "tech talent"

anghyflawn 15y ago

I find it very hard to believe that many American employers hire foreigners, with all the paperwork that entails, unless they are persuaded that the foreigner in question is indeed better than the Americans in their pool (modulo wages, but there's a wage floor for H1B, and in any case it's a question of value).

devs1010 15y ago
This is completely untrue, I get the feeling you haven't worked a place that has many H1B employees. All I can say is it has been quite obvious that some H1B employees were not quite as sharp as their American counterparts at some places I have worked (not saying all H1B workers, but some). Sure, some are good, but they are not all hired because they have a better skillset and are better overall than their American counterparts, this is rather ridiculous.

untog 15y ago

I am sick and tired of employers in the U.S. viewing people with degrees from universities in third-world countries as if they are equal to a degree from the U.S I, on the other hand, am sick and tired of the immigration authorities questioning my degree from the UK and refusing to confirm that it is equivalent to a US degree. Hardly third-world. But in any case, your problem is solved very easily- by firing people. At a previous job we hired a guy with a Masters from a college in New Jersey (I forget which, sadly). He was useless. We fired him. Education can get you in the door, but it can't keep you in the room. The problem with this is that hiring immigrants is more expensive and time-consuming because of the process you have to go through. Although it sounds backwards, if it was easier to hire immigrants it would be easier to fire them when they aren't as good as they say they are.

devs1010 15y ago
I think that the UK is considered on-par with the US, I wasn't inferring anywhere that the UK is third-world.
- untog 15y ago
  Oh, I know. I was making a more general point that degree equivalency is just a giant mess.

opinali 15y ago

There are US organizations that certify the accreditation of foreign schools and universities, and the equivalence of their diplomas. It's the same system used by foreign students who apply to an American university. I'm not sure how well this system works, but it does exist, so if there is still space for fraud, just fix the system. Also, once again this is a problem for temp visas with their complex and expensive sponsorship deals; if you just give a green card to any high-skilled worker, if he is incompetent because his education was much below American standards, the guy is fired after the first month, problem solved. (I would support some scheme where such a new GC holder is denied social security benefits in the first X years of residence or Y years of actual employment and tax paying.)