3 ms·

I've long suspected the start menu was intended to be on the top of the screen. In all other applications when you want to shut it down, it's the last option o

I've long suspected the start menu was intended to be on the top of the screen. In all other applications when you want to shut it down, it's the last option on the list. If you move the start menu to the top, then shutdown does indeed become the last on the list and the most common option, "Programs" becomes the closest by Fitts Law standards. Even in the Program Manager in Windows 3.1, the Run and Shutdown options were the same place but the menu was at the top. From the beginning (of public releases) in Windows 95 you could in fact move the start bar to the top. Having it on bottom was legally much cleaner, especially on the heels of 6-year saga of the classic Apple vs. Microsoft "look and feel" lawsuit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros.... Anyway, this is 100% speculative - there is a few builds with it on the top, such as Windows 95 build 90c https://betawiki.net/wiki/Windows_95_build_90c https://betawiki.net/wiki/Windows_95_build_90c but it starts on the bottom and quickly moves back there: https://betawiki.net/wiki/Category:Windows_95_builds https://betawiki.net/wiki/Category:Windows_95_builds But really, menu bar on the top, colorful rainbowish icon on the left, clock on the right, it's very System 7.5 (https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_7.5 https://apple.fandom.com/wiki/System_7.5) Reminds me of McDonaldland vs Sid & Marty Krofft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_%26_Marty_Krofft_Television_Productions_Inc._v._McDonald%27s_Corp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_%26_Marty_Krofft_Televisio....), and I quote: "We do not believe that the ordinary reasonable person, let alone a child, viewing these works will even notice that Pufnstuf is wearing a cummerbund while Mayor McCheese is wearing a diplomat’s sash."

Kwpolska 4y ago
The next build after 90c had the task bar at the bottom. The start menu was redesigned a few times after that build (which is from early 1994). Why would Microsoft leave shut down in the wrong position? Why did it take them until XP to put the programs option closer to the bottom?
- kristopolous 4y ago
  I have no idea. It just seems unusual that the closest mouse distance is shut down. Fitt's Law, GOMS analysis and the human processor model were all the rage in the mid-90s. The ordering is pretty unusual but when you push the start menu to the top, all the rules are followed again. Again, pure speculation. I wasn't in the room and I've never been able to directly ask someone who was (although I'd go out of my way for the opportunity). As far as how it took them so long, I'd imagine moving things around on the start menu would require the signoff of an annoyingly large number of people. This is before the modern era of Unilateral UI Designer Autocrat who's given questionably broad authority over everything.
secondcoming 4y ago
You can move the taskbar to the top of the screen.
int_19h 4y ago
I always suspected that the reason why it's on the bottom is so that it doesn't blend into tab headers when a tabbed dialog is maximized.
dporan 4y ago
I created the Start Menu and Taskbar, and I did intend for them to be at the top of the screen. http://blogs.harvard.edu/danieloran/2022/11/28/qa-about-the-windows-start-menu-and-taskbar/ http://blogs.harvard.edu/danieloran/2022/11/28/qa-about-the-...
- leeches 4y ago
  Oh wow. Thanks for sharing the Q&A.
- vinodhn 4y ago
  Interesting Q&A, thanks for sharing!
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  Hi Daniel, the interview you linked should be a HN submission in its own right. It's a shame to have it lost in a comment two levels deep in a long thread. I am sure there are a lot of people interested in the history of computing and user interfaces that would really appreciate this interview and seeing the original prototypes and sketches.
  - dporan 4y ago
    Thanks for the suggestion! Here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33794018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33794018
- kristopolous 4y ago
  My whole speculative checklist on the matter is now confirmed about as accurately as I could ever hope for. What a lovely feeling of satisfaction that is
  - dporan 4y ago
    Glad to help!

Kwpolska 4y ago

The next build after 90c had the task bar at the bottom. The start menu was redesigned a few times after that build (which is from early 1994). Why would Microsoft leave shut down in the wrong position? Why did it take them until XP to put the programs option closer to the bottom?

kristopolous 4y ago
I have no idea. It just seems unusual that the closest mouse distance is shut down. Fitt's Law, GOMS analysis and the human processor model were all the rage in the mid-90s. The ordering is pretty unusual but when you push the start menu to the top, all the rules are followed again. Again, pure speculation. I wasn't in the room and I've never been able to directly ask someone who was (although I'd go out of my way for the opportunity). As far as how it took them so long, I'd imagine moving things around on the start menu would require the signoff of an annoyingly large number of people. This is before the modern era of Unilateral UI Designer Autocrat who's given questionably broad authority over everything.

secondcoming 4y ago

You can move the taskbar to the top of the screen.

int_19h 4y ago

I always suspected that the reason why it's on the bottom is so that it doesn't blend into tab headers when a tabbed dialog is maximized.

dporan 4y ago

I created the Start Menu and Taskbar, and I did intend for them to be at the top of the screen. http://blogs.harvard.edu/danieloran/2022/11/28/qa-about-the-windows-start-menu-and-taskbar/ http://blogs.harvard.edu/danieloran/2022/11/28/qa-about-the-...

leeches 4y ago
Oh wow. Thanks for sharing the Q&A.
vinodhn 4y ago
Interesting Q&A, thanks for sharing!
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Hi Daniel, the interview you linked should be a HN submission in its own right. It's a shame to have it lost in a comment two levels deep in a long thread. I am sure there are a lot of people interested in the history of computing and user interfaces that would really appreciate this interview and seeing the original prototypes and sketches.
- dporan 4y ago
  Thanks for the suggestion! Here it is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33794018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33794018
kristopolous 4y ago
My whole speculative checklist on the matter is now confirmed about as accurately as I could ever hope for. What a lovely feeling of satisfaction that is
- dporan 4y ago
  Glad to help!