5 ms·

Pretty sure Google has been mostly out of China since Operation Aurora.

by alphabetting 4y ago

falcolas 4y ago
They're still trying to get back in. See project Dragonfly for example.
- DashAnimal 4y ago
  Dragonfly was discontinued in 2018, MAYBE mid 2019. That is 3-4 years ago.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    And? They were booted out of China over 12 years ago. 3 years ago isn't that long, in that timeline. Given their known attempts to get back in, it's likely there are other such secret initiatives we don't know about. China represents a huge potential market for Google that their investors won't let leadership forget about.
    - sidibe 4y ago
      3 years ago some team was probing reopening search in China and when more employees found out about it they leaked and protested the project, shutting it down. Hardly seems like a point against Google. > China represents a huge potential market for Google that their investors won't let leadership forget about. China represents a huge potential market that Google investors have already given up on because no one is expecting that market to reopen to Google any time soon
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Strawman. A large chunk of Apple's revenue comes from China. The majority of assembly occurs in China. Google does a rounding error of business in China - assembly for Nest devices.
  - falcolas 4y ago
    All I've been able to find on "Google moves pixel manufacturing out of China" is rumors. Rumors they were moving some of them to Vietnam. Rumors that they were moving some to India. But no official notification that they've been moved. No notes on their storefront on where the pixel phones are being manufactured. The most convincing article I found was an un-sourced piece from "hothardware" (and nothing shouts legitimacy in a source than a name like that) which says that only the budget pixel phones were actually moved to Vietnam, the high end versions are still in China. As such, I have to assume that their production is still largely occurring in China. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though. As a side note about the strawman accusation; pointing out Google's attempts to re-enter the lucrative Chinese market when the parent is using their absence to justify the position of "Google's Better" is absolutely relevant.
    - jsnell 4y ago
      The fact is that Google left China 12 years ago and never returned. They gave up on the search ad revenue in the world's second largest economy. They gave up on the app store revenue in the world's largest smartphone market. That's a hell of a thing for a big company to do as a matter of principle. Some exec tried to run a project to re-enter China with search, and the project was axed the moment it became widely known in the company. All through that time Tim Cook hasn't just been betting on China for manufacturing, but are addicted to the Chinese revenue. Apple is being held over the barrel by the CCP, both sides know it, and Apple are not doing anything to wean themselves off. As a result, Apple gives user data to Chinese authorities on requests thousands of times per year, and accept the vast majority of data requests [0]. In comparison, Google has given data on 2 accounts in the last decade. [1] Isn't it pretty obvious that we'd like more companies to behave like Google in this situation, and no companies to act like Apple? Why are you trying to tear down the company that's done the right thing in this situation? [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/cn.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/cn.html [1] https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?hl=en&user_requests_report_period=series:requests,accounts;authority:CN;time:&lu=user_requests_report_period https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?hl=...

Pretty sure Google has been mostly out of China since Operation Aurora.

falcolas 4y ago

They're still trying to get back in. See project Dragonfly for example.

DashAnimal 4y ago
Dragonfly was discontinued in 2018, MAYBE mid 2019. That is 3-4 years ago.
- falcolas 4y ago
  And? They were booted out of China over 12 years ago. 3 years ago isn't that long, in that timeline. Given their known attempts to get back in, it's likely there are other such secret initiatives we don't know about. China represents a huge potential market for Google that their investors won't let leadership forget about.
  - sidibe 4y ago
    3 years ago some team was probing reopening search in China and when more employees found out about it they leaked and protested the project, shutting it down. Hardly seems like a point against Google. > China represents a huge potential market for Google that their investors won't let leadership forget about. China represents a huge potential market that Google investors have already given up on because no one is expecting that market to reopen to Google any time soon
onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Strawman. A large chunk of Apple's revenue comes from China. The majority of assembly occurs in China. Google does a rounding error of business in China - assembly for Nest devices.
- falcolas 4y ago
  All I've been able to find on "Google moves pixel manufacturing out of China" is rumors. Rumors they were moving some of them to Vietnam. Rumors that they were moving some to India. But no official notification that they've been moved. No notes on their storefront on where the pixel phones are being manufactured. The most convincing article I found was an un-sourced piece from "hothardware" (and nothing shouts legitimacy in a source than a name like that) which says that only the budget pixel phones were actually moved to Vietnam, the high end versions are still in China. As such, I have to assume that their production is still largely occurring in China. I wouldn't mind being proven wrong though. As a side note about the strawman accusation; pointing out Google's attempts to re-enter the lucrative Chinese market when the parent is using their absence to justify the position of "Google's Better" is absolutely relevant.
  - jsnell 4y ago
    The fact is that Google left China 12 years ago and never returned. They gave up on the search ad revenue in the world's second largest economy. They gave up on the app store revenue in the world's largest smartphone market. That's a hell of a thing for a big company to do as a matter of principle. Some exec tried to run a project to re-enter China with search, and the project was axed the moment it became widely known in the company. All through that time Tim Cook hasn't just been betting on China for manufacturing, but are addicted to the Chinese revenue. Apple is being held over the barrel by the CCP, both sides know it, and Apple are not doing anything to wean themselves off. As a result, Apple gives user data to Chinese authorities on requests thousands of times per year, and accept the vast majority of data requests [0]. In comparison, Google has given data on 2 accounts in the last decade. [1] Isn't it pretty obvious that we'd like more companies to behave like Google in this situation, and no companies to act like Apple? Why are you trying to tear down the company that's done the right thing in this situation? [0] https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/cn.html https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/cn.html [1] https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?hl=en&user_requests_report_period=series:requests,accounts;authority:CN;time:&lu=user_requests_report_period https://transparencyreport.google.com/user-data/overview?hl=...