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I guess this is the kind of blind obedience to an authoritarian regime that 275 billion dollars gets you https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/app

I guess this is the kind of blind obedience to an authoritarian regime that 275 billion dollars gets you https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-china-deal-tim-cook https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi... But never mind, they have rainbow hashtags and censor pepe memes so they are the good guys...

lazyeye 4y ago
I note the downvotes on this post. Silicon valley people are not our friends.
- adam_arthur 4y ago
  It actually blows my mind how many Apple zombies exist out there. 99% of them would chastise Microsoft for doing similar things in the 90s/2000s with Windows.
- xpe 4y ago
  Or perhaps your comment is not considered useful. Be open to the possibility that you can share interests with people that criticize you. > I guess this is the kind of blind obedience to an authoritarian regime that 275 billion dollars gets you https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi... But never mind, they have rainbow hashtags and censor pepe memes so they are the good guys... Speaking for myself (no comment on if I downvoted or not), I tend to not value exaggerations such as "blind obedience". That is not what is happening here. We are seeing parts of a complex power dynamic between a superpower and supercorporation. Dumbing it down is insulting to this audience.
  - lazyeye 4y ago
    Can you provide examples where Apple has taken a stand (at their own personal cost) against China? Doesn't seem to be such a "complex power dynamic" at all maybe? Maybe some "dumbing down" might be useful to a crowd that is disconnected from reality and likes to hide behind language?
    - xpe 4y ago
      > Maybe some "dumbing down" might be useful to a crowd that is disconnected from reality and likes to hide behind language? Please describe your data justifying the characterization about the crowd you are referring to. The HN crowd, you mean, right? Please use a statistical understanding and don't overgeneralize. Does it justify "dumbing down" or exaggeration? At this point, based on what you've written so far, it seems to me you have an overly pessimistic and stylized view of the audience here.
    - xpe 4y ago
      > Can you provide examples where Apple has taken a stand (at their own personal cost) against China? / Doesn't seem to be such a "complex power dynamic" at all maybe? I don't need to provide examples in order for my point to stand: the power dynamics between China and Apple are not about blind obedience. What I mean by power dynamics is well understood. It applies to geopolitics, economics, as well as personal relationships. It means (approximately) that the parties are aware of their relative power and influence and act accordingly. This is clearly different than "blind obedience". If you are looking for examples by the way, there's plenty of discussion of this around this general thread. I don't need to repeat it. Additionally, and arguably more importantly, there is observational bias: outsiders are unlikely to be privy to all relevant negotiations between China and Apple. If we were, perhaps we could better understand the "push and pull" (a phrase referring to power dynamics) and therefore Apple's influence and corporate policies and "ethics" if you want to call it that. In these comments, my goal is not to defend Apple, blindly or otherwise. Rather, I'm trying to show that there are nuanced and useful ways to discuss these topics. I get it -- it's common to be annoyed, disappointed, or even irate at how Apple behaves in comparison to its PR and branding. Hypocrisy is not something I overlook either. (Aside: But I aim for a standard higher than "common" when I put comments onto HN. I get the impression many other people do too. Even more of this would help a lot.) But are such emotions and vocalizations primarily the result of a quest for truth? Or do they mostly serve some other purpose? I have a guess. Based on your comments, I think you are expressing dismay in a way that is too blunt to be useful to many people here. Lastly, it is worth mentioning the Hacker News guidelines that discourage comments or complaints about down votes. I waded in and replied to your complaint because I hoped you were a bit curious and not completely dug-in to your position. I'm not sure at this point. It has been very challenging for me to try to give you feedback in a way that you will consider to be useful.

lazyeye 4y ago

I note the downvotes on this post. Silicon valley people are not our friends.

adam_arthur 4y ago
It actually blows my mind how many Apple zombies exist out there. 99% of them would chastise Microsoft for doing similar things in the 90s/2000s with Windows.
xpe 4y ago
Or perhaps your comment is not considered useful. Be open to the possibility that you can share interests with people that criticize you. > I guess this is the kind of blind obedience to an authoritarian regime that 275 billion dollars gets you https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/dec/07/apple-chi... But never mind, they have rainbow hashtags and censor pepe memes so they are the good guys... Speaking for myself (no comment on if I downvoted or not), I tend to not value exaggerations such as "blind obedience". That is not what is happening here. We are seeing parts of a complex power dynamic between a superpower and supercorporation. Dumbing it down is insulting to this audience.
- lazyeye 4y ago
  Can you provide examples where Apple has taken a stand (at their own personal cost) against China? Doesn't seem to be such a "complex power dynamic" at all maybe? Maybe some "dumbing down" might be useful to a crowd that is disconnected from reality and likes to hide behind language?
  - xpe 4y ago
    > Maybe some "dumbing down" might be useful to a crowd that is disconnected from reality and likes to hide behind language? Please describe your data justifying the characterization about the crowd you are referring to. The HN crowd, you mean, right? Please use a statistical understanding and don't overgeneralize. Does it justify "dumbing down" or exaggeration? At this point, based on what you've written so far, it seems to me you have an overly pessimistic and stylized view of the audience here.
  - xpe 4y ago
    > Can you provide examples where Apple has taken a stand (at their own personal cost) against China? / Doesn't seem to be such a "complex power dynamic" at all maybe? I don't need to provide examples in order for my point to stand: the power dynamics between China and Apple are not about blind obedience. What I mean by power dynamics is well understood. It applies to geopolitics, economics, as well as personal relationships. It means (approximately) that the parties are aware of their relative power and influence and act accordingly. This is clearly different than "blind obedience". If you are looking for examples by the way, there's plenty of discussion of this around this general thread. I don't need to repeat it. Additionally, and arguably more importantly, there is observational bias: outsiders are unlikely to be privy to all relevant negotiations between China and Apple. If we were, perhaps we could better understand the "push and pull" (a phrase referring to power dynamics) and therefore Apple's influence and corporate policies and "ethics" if you want to call it that. In these comments, my goal is not to defend Apple, blindly or otherwise. Rather, I'm trying to show that there are nuanced and useful ways to discuss these topics. I get it -- it's common to be annoyed, disappointed, or even irate at how Apple behaves in comparison to its PR and branding. Hypocrisy is not something I overlook either. (Aside: But I aim for a standard higher than "common" when I put comments onto HN. I get the impression many other people do too. Even more of this would help a lot.) But are such emotions and vocalizations primarily the result of a quest for truth? Or do they mostly serve some other purpose? I have a guess. Based on your comments, I think you are expressing dismay in a way that is too blunt to be useful to many people here. Lastly, it is worth mentioning the Hacker News guidelines that discourage comments or complaints about down votes. I waded in and replied to your complaint because I hoped you were a bit curious and not completely dug-in to your position. I'm not sure at this point. It has been very challenging for me to try to give you feedback in a way that you will consider to be useful.