3 ms·

The shock people experience when you tell them any sorting, especially sorting chronologically, requires an "algorithm" is disappointing.

senko 4y ago
It makes perfect sense considering the wider public understands "algorithm" as "big,opaque,unknowable way of doing something probably tilted towards interests of the corporation/government", which is how the word has been used in mass media for years.
- 082349872349872 4y ago
  compare the wider public understanding of "hacker"
- Pxtl 4y ago
  Kind of like the word "agenda", which basically just means a "to-do list". But an "agenda" often represents the accusation that you've got a secret nefarious goal. Or even "rhetoric" which is just the term for the art of speaking well, but now has been taken to imply flashy and dishonest tricks of speech.
bawolff 4y ago
I mean, it is mostly just people dont know what the word means. Its so vauge you could replace it with "do something" and be correct 99% of the time. Sorting requires "doing something", doesn't sound too shocking.
yamtaddle 4y ago
I think most people don't regard something they could easily—if tediously—do by hand without ever so much as thinking of a mathematical symbol or operation (I mean, I guess they do a bit of you're sorting by numbers, but "is this number/date higher or lower?" only barely qualifies as math for most people, if at all) as algorithmic, even if it entirely is, by the strict definition.
xsmasher 4y ago
When people complain about the "the algorithm" they're not talking about bubble sort. It's shorthand for something - "biased feed algorithms" maybe. You may as well tell them tomatoes are actually a fruit.
AdamH12113 4y ago
"Algorithm" is similar to "cloud" and (much earlier) "online" in that it's acquired a popular/marketing meaning distinct from its original technical meaning. It's an example of an improper noun[1]. [1] https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1773806.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1773806.html
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jasonlotito 4y ago
They aren't complaining about algorithms. They are complaining about an algorithm that determines what people should see for the sole purpose of increasing some engagement metric. This does not necessarily mean giving the person what they want to see.
ne0flex 4y ago
I can't recall where I saw it, but a few years ago I saw an interview that involved some techie. The host asked them about Twitter and said, "what if we get rid of the algorithm, and, say, put everything chronoligically." The interviewee responded with "Well if you get rid of the current algorithm and replace it with that, you'll have an algorithm that sorts in chronological order." to which the interviewer's response was, "no, I'm saying we get rid of the algorithm."

senko 4y ago

It makes perfect sense considering the wider public understands "algorithm" as "big,opaque,unknowable way of doing something probably tilted towards interests of the corporation/government", which is how the word has been used in mass media for years.

082349872349872 4y ago
compare the wider public understanding of "hacker"
Pxtl 4y ago
Kind of like the word "agenda", which basically just means a "to-do list". But an "agenda" often represents the accusation that you've got a secret nefarious goal. Or even "rhetoric" which is just the term for the art of speaking well, but now has been taken to imply flashy and dishonest tricks of speech.

bawolff 4y ago

I mean, it is mostly just people dont know what the word means. Its so vauge you could replace it with "do something" and be correct 99% of the time. Sorting requires "doing something", doesn't sound too shocking.

yamtaddle 4y ago

I think most people don't regard something they could easily—if tediously—do by hand without ever so much as thinking of a mathematical symbol or operation (I mean, I guess they do a bit of you're sorting by numbers, but "is this number/date higher or lower?" only barely qualifies as math for most people, if at all) as algorithmic, even if it entirely is, by the strict definition.

xsmasher 4y ago

When people complain about the "the algorithm" they're not talking about bubble sort. It's shorthand for something - "biased feed algorithms" maybe. You may as well tell them tomatoes are actually a fruit.

AdamH12113 4y ago

"Algorithm" is similar to "cloud" and (much earlier) "online" in that it's acquired a popular/marketing meaning distinct from its original technical meaning. It's an example of an improper noun[1]. [1] https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1773806.html https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1773806.html

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jasonlotito 4y ago

They aren't complaining about algorithms. They are complaining about an algorithm that determines what people should see for the sole purpose of increasing some engagement metric. This does not necessarily mean giving the person what they want to see.

ne0flex 4y ago

I can't recall where I saw it, but a few years ago I saw an interview that involved some techie. The host asked them about Twitter and said, "what if we get rid of the algorithm, and, say, put everything chronoligically." The interviewee responded with "Well if you get rid of the current algorithm and replace it with that, you'll have an algorithm that sorts in chronological order." to which the interviewer's response was, "no, I'm saying we get rid of the algorithm."