4 ms·

NFTs are collectors items. It's as stupid as collecting anything, including fine art, photography, baseball cards, rocks. I'll admit it seems more strange becau

by andirk 4y ago

NFTs are collectors items. It's as stupid as collecting anything, including fine art, photography, baseball cards, rocks. I'll admit it seems more strange because it's uninteresting, but claiming collecting is idiotic is pretty short-sighted. No, I don't collect that crap :)

Yizahi 4y ago
There is one "small" problem - NFTs are NOT in any way related to the items/files someone is collecting. And collecting NFTs is about as interesting as "collecting" numbers from the random number generator.
- williamcotton 4y ago
  NFTs are probably the most interesting and legitimate use of these kinds of computer systems. For example, I could see a lot of value in specialized Yu-Gi-Oh projection card tables installed at game stores that only worked with officially issued NFT virtual cards. Players could rent out their virtual cards to other players and turn their purchases into assets. There are already companies in the MTGO space that rent out virtual cards but the whole trading system is (poorly) managed by Wizards of the Coast and lacks programmability. I think the biggest problem with crypto is that it was way overhyped for anything outside of having fun online. It's like meme stocks. It's fun to waste $50 playing some silly online game! It's not fun to waste $50k gambling on something that you think will change the global financial systems. I also think there's plenty of room for fungible tokens that represent ownership over digital content, eg, buying 4% of the rights to the future profits from the monetization of a digital video, as opposed to the patronage system of platforms like Twitch or Patreon. If we truly are reliving the existing financial system shouldn't we expect to reinvent a marketplace for intellectual property?
  - Yizahi 4y ago
    I have to repeat myself - your "YuGiOh virtual cards" are in no way related to the NFTs. Sure you can require buyer of a card to also buy NFT, you can even pretend that was a single transaction. But really NFT has zero function in this example, it provides zero value, and if you remove it from the system altogether - NOTHING will change. It's like saying that clapping with your hands at the gas station is somehow equivalent to the purchasing fuel. Sure, BP for example, can demand all fuel buyers to clap their hands once and claim that hand clap = fuel. But really it's just a dumb addition to the real transaction which does nothing. NFTs are such hand clap when buying digital (or real) objects. The only difference is that they are served with metric ton of technical and pseudo-technical jargon, to the point when even some people in IT are starting to have doubts. But then you think about NFTs again and the mist of bullshit dissipates leaving only bare facts.
    - williamcotton 4y ago
      If the projection system in the game store requires NFTs that were issued by the creators of Yu-Gi-Oh then you would need these virtual cards to participate, just like how you need virtual Magic cards in MTGO in order to participate, the difference being that in the former it would be some open standard where people could trade, sell, and lend as they see fit.
      - andreareina 4y ago
        How do you verify the entity you think is Konami is actually Konami? If you're only going to going to allow their cards then what's the actual benefit of being on whatever chain instead of using Konami's own database where they can implement all the features desired without the complication of byzantine consensus?
        williamcotton 4y ago
        Konami makes this really great projection system that keeps track of game state and projects onto a big table and they give/lease/sell these devices to game stores. The device comes installed with trusted public keys of a certificate authority managed by Konami and will only work with virtual cards issued by Konami. The ownership of those virtual cards is handled by a mechanism not managed by Konami. This is basically how Yi-Gi-Oh physical cards work. They make official cards and they don’t manage the ownership of those cards. The advantage for Konami is that they don’t need to build much of any infrastructure for a market for trading or selling virtual cards. The advantage for players is they don’t have to rely on Konami for these ownership related features and can buy, sell, lend as they see fit. The MTGO marketplace is really awful but it’s the only choice that MTG players have if they want to buy, sell or trade virtual MTG cards.
      - Yizahi 4y ago
        I'll try again. Company A (Shueisha) creates digital collectible cards. They store them in their private classic centralised DB (not related to blockchain in any way, because private blockchain is idiotic idea). They are not stored in the public blockchain because that is technically impossible both in current and future chains, due to constraints decided collectively (you can't have even barely working blockchain pretending to be decentralised and also be able to store megabytes of data on chain). Then company A creates NFTs for these cards. Again, the digital cards are not in any way related or linked or paired with the NFTs. The system storing and managing cards doesn't know about NFTs. NFTs are weakly linked to somewhere on the web, supposedly to the cards, but there is really no requirement for that and what more amazing - no verification to where they are linking. Now what happens when someone is selling or reselling cards. I will split this into MUST and OPTIONAL sections. User MUST create an account on the completely proprietary and centralised server of company A, because system storing and managing cards MUST update who owns what in its centralised DB. And technically that's all, nothing else is needed. What it OPTIONAL is that user can also buy NFT which was initially generated by company A, and which stores an URL pointing to the card hosted on the private company A server. But until company A does the MUST step above, NFTs sale is pointless. Centralised DB does not in any way interact with blockchain with NFTs, and it technically can't. Some other NFT fans also claim that they allow moving assets between companies or even people. This is simply impossible to do with only blockchain, again, because centralised DB and management systems are required due to technical limitations, and because companies must agree on the cross compatible formats and agree to take revenue cuts, which is a fantasy. And moving assets to the humans is also impossible because NFTs don't transfer any partial or full IP rights, they are technically incapable of doing this. Then again you are dependent on the centralised DBs. As you can see, NFT is an interesting artificial construct which does literally no useful functionality on it's own. In any proposed system with NFTs, you can cut out NFTs and have exact same functionality remaining.
dorkwood 4y ago
I think the difference is that no one was trying to convince a generation of artists that baseball cards were the future of digital art, and that they should inject their own money into the baseball card market to "support the community".

by andirk 4y ago

Yizahi 4y ago

There is one "small" problem - NFTs are NOT in any way related to the items/files someone is collecting. And collecting NFTs is about as interesting as "collecting" numbers from the random number generator.

williamcotton 4y ago
NFTs are probably the most interesting and legitimate use of these kinds of computer systems. For example, I could see a lot of value in specialized Yu-Gi-Oh projection card tables installed at game stores that only worked with officially issued NFT virtual cards. Players could rent out their virtual cards to other players and turn their purchases into assets. There are already companies in the MTGO space that rent out virtual cards but the whole trading system is (poorly) managed by Wizards of the Coast and lacks programmability. I think the biggest problem with crypto is that it was way overhyped for anything outside of having fun online. It's like meme stocks. It's fun to waste $50 playing some silly online game! It's not fun to waste $50k gambling on something that you think will change the global financial systems. I also think there's plenty of room for fungible tokens that represent ownership over digital content, eg, buying 4% of the rights to the future profits from the monetization of a digital video, as opposed to the patronage system of platforms like Twitch or Patreon. If we truly are reliving the existing financial system shouldn't we expect to reinvent a marketplace for intellectual property?
- Yizahi 4y ago
  I have to repeat myself - your "YuGiOh virtual cards" are in no way related to the NFTs. Sure you can require buyer of a card to also buy NFT, you can even pretend that was a single transaction. But really NFT has zero function in this example, it provides zero value, and if you remove it from the system altogether - NOTHING will change. It's like saying that clapping with your hands at the gas station is somehow equivalent to the purchasing fuel. Sure, BP for example, can demand all fuel buyers to clap their hands once and claim that hand clap = fuel. But really it's just a dumb addition to the real transaction which does nothing. NFTs are such hand clap when buying digital (or real) objects. The only difference is that they are served with metric ton of technical and pseudo-technical jargon, to the point when even some people in IT are starting to have doubts. But then you think about NFTs again and the mist of bullshit dissipates leaving only bare facts.
  - williamcotton 4y ago
    If the projection system in the game store requires NFTs that were issued by the creators of Yu-Gi-Oh then you would need these virtual cards to participate, just like how you need virtual Magic cards in MTGO in order to participate, the difference being that in the former it would be some open standard where people could trade, sell, and lend as they see fit.
    - andreareina 4y ago
      How do you verify the entity you think is Konami is actually Konami? If you're only going to going to allow their cards then what's the actual benefit of being on whatever chain instead of using Konami's own database where they can implement all the features desired without the complication of byzantine consensus?
      - williamcotton 4y ago
        Konami makes this really great projection system that keeps track of game state and projects onto a big table and they give/lease/sell these devices to game stores. The device comes installed with trusted public keys of a certificate authority managed by Konami and will only work with virtual cards issued by Konami. The ownership of those virtual cards is handled by a mechanism not managed by Konami. This is basically how Yi-Gi-Oh physical cards work. They make official cards and they don’t manage the ownership of those cards. The advantage for Konami is that they don’t need to build much of any infrastructure for a market for trading or selling virtual cards. The advantage for players is they don’t have to rely on Konami for these ownership related features and can buy, sell, lend as they see fit. The MTGO marketplace is really awful but it’s the only choice that MTG players have if they want to buy, sell or trade virtual MTG cards.
    - Yizahi 4y ago
      I'll try again. Company A (Shueisha) creates digital collectible cards. They store them in their private classic centralised DB (not related to blockchain in any way, because private blockchain is idiotic idea). They are not stored in the public blockchain because that is technically impossible both in current and future chains, due to constraints decided collectively (you can't have even barely working blockchain pretending to be decentralised and also be able to store megabytes of data on chain). Then company A creates NFTs for these cards. Again, the digital cards are not in any way related or linked or paired with the NFTs. The system storing and managing cards doesn't know about NFTs. NFTs are weakly linked to somewhere on the web, supposedly to the cards, but there is really no requirement for that and what more amazing - no verification to where they are linking. Now what happens when someone is selling or reselling cards. I will split this into MUST and OPTIONAL sections. User MUST create an account on the completely proprietary and centralised server of company A, because system storing and managing cards MUST update who owns what in its centralised DB. And technically that's all, nothing else is needed. What it OPTIONAL is that user can also buy NFT which was initially generated by company A, and which stores an URL pointing to the card hosted on the private company A server. But until company A does the MUST step above, NFTs sale is pointless. Centralised DB does not in any way interact with blockchain with NFTs, and it technically can't. Some other NFT fans also claim that they allow moving assets between companies or even people. This is simply impossible to do with only blockchain, again, because centralised DB and management systems are required due to technical limitations, and because companies must agree on the cross compatible formats and agree to take revenue cuts, which is a fantasy. And moving assets to the humans is also impossible because NFTs don't transfer any partial or full IP rights, they are technically incapable of doing this. Then again you are dependent on the centralised DBs. As you can see, NFT is an interesting artificial construct which does literally no useful functionality on it's own. In any proposed system with NFTs, you can cut out NFTs and have exact same functionality remaining.

dorkwood 4y ago

I think the difference is that no one was trying to convince a generation of artists that baseball cards were the future of digital art, and that they should inject their own money into the baseball card market to "support the community".