5 ms·

I love the ATtiny for hobby projects! The acceptable voltage range means it can run off lithium with no regulator and then the quiescent current is something li

I love the ATtiny for hobby projects! The acceptable voltage range means it can run off lithium with no regulator and then the quiescent current is something like 5nA. The battery will practically self-discharge faster than the MC can wear it out. Of course the feature set is limited but for the battery powered "go to sleep until XYZ then do something" use case, it's awesome.

scottwick 4y ago
I totally agree, they're really great for simple hobby projects! I've mostly used the ATTiny85 and it's easy to understand the datasheet, easy to program, battery efficient and comes in a DIP-8 form factor for easy breadboarding. Compared with something like an STM32 I find it quite fun to work with!
- brokenmachine 4y ago
  I find the ATTiny85 difficult, since you have to connect a programmer to it. I tried the Digispark clones but then you lose the low-power advantages. I'm usually trying to work out problems with my crappy code so I need a connection all the time to iterate. So I prefer the ESPs or Arduino Pro Micro.
snvzz 4y ago
AIUI, Texas Instruments' MSP430 series[0] (which are 16-bit) is still king at low power. 0. https://embedded.fm/blog/ese101?format=amp https://embedded.fm/blog/ese101?format=amp
- zokier 4y ago
  While low-power has been the selling point for MSP430, in practice I understand the shitton of effort poured into making ARM power-efficient has allowed them to surpass MSP430, see e.g. https://www.eembc.org/ulpmark/ulp-cp/scores.php https://www.eembc.org/ulpmark/ulp-cp/scores.php
- guenthert 4y ago
  True, but (some) ATtiny are still available in beginner-friendly tth DIP package.
  - watchdogtimer 4y ago
    Unfortunately, judging from the article, this doesn't appear to be true for any of the new series. Some of the new AVR series are, however. A few of these have some of the same features offered in these Tinys (e.g., 12-bit differential ADCs)
    - puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago
      8-pin SOIC packages (like 412/212) are still very easy to handle as a hobbyist. I've used them in a variety of projects.
      - BoorishBears 4y ago
        As a kid I remember ordering free MSP430 samples from TI (in DIP format) SOIC would have been completely inaccessible for me as I mostly relied on breadboards and a radio shack soldering iron with a half-corroded tip that would probably be better suited for plumbing than placing SOICs
        unwind 4y ago
        This bears repeating every once in a while: surface-mount soldering is not very hard. It's perhaps harder than through-hole, since you don't get the benefit of having the component held mechanically, but not by a lot. The actual soldering with surface-mount stuff does not mean you have to be like an industrial robot in your precision and gently apply heat to each tiny tiny leg, while also getting the solder in there just in time, all the while holding your breath so you don't blow things away. Not at all. Surface-mount soldering can be done using way "uglier" techniques than through-hole, where you basically flood the component's legs with solder, heat it enough for it to melt and flow, and then remove the excess. Thanks to the magic of surface tension (and, if you have it, extra flux) the solder will flow to where you want it, all on its own. This kind of technique probably wouldn't cut it for production, where consistency and quality of course are important, but for hobby use it's fine! There are plenty of YouTube videos showing this off, it can be really really easy. Please don't fear surface-mount soldering. Grab (the cool side of) your iron and join the fun!
- dragontamer 4y ago
  I did a brief search, and it seems that at 1MHz, all of the chips discussed in this discussion so far (ATTiny, MSP430, and STM32) are all 200 uA or less, while _fully active_. Sleep modes bring that down below 50uA. So on 2x AA batteries (~3000 mA-hours), it seems like these datasheets are telling me that all these chips can consistently hit 2.5 _YEARS_ of battery life? Or 6.5+ _YEARS_ of sleep-battery life? I'm surprised at how low power modern microcontrollers are. The power-consumption metrics continue to get better-and-better year over year.
  - ilyt 4y ago
    It's interesting tradeoff, because generally the bigger transistor the less quiescent current it has (=lower power when everything is off), but on the other side the bigger transistor the higher uA/MHz consumption
  - squarefoot 4y ago
    A single ultra long life Li-SOCl2 D cell like the Tadiran TL5930/S could probably power one of these chips for no less than a decade. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tadiran-Batteries/TL5930-S?qs=Yk42LiOZU8SeefDe1%2FzLBA%3D%3D https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tadiran-Batteries/TL593...
  - snvzz 4y ago
    msp430 will get you into nA territory[0]. 0. https://www.edn.com/ti-msp430-mcu-breaks-500-nano-amp-barrier/ https://www.edn.com/ti-msp430-mcu-breaks-500-nano-amp-barrie...
bragr 4y ago
I made a little LED doodads with an ATtiny running off a simple coin cell. Good for several hours of fun!

scottwick 4y ago

I totally agree, they're really great for simple hobby projects! I've mostly used the ATTiny85 and it's easy to understand the datasheet, easy to program, battery efficient and comes in a DIP-8 form factor for easy breadboarding. Compared with something like an STM32 I find it quite fun to work with!

brokenmachine 4y ago
I find the ATTiny85 difficult, since you have to connect a programmer to it. I tried the Digispark clones but then you lose the low-power advantages. I'm usually trying to work out problems with my crappy code so I need a connection all the time to iterate. So I prefer the ESPs or Arduino Pro Micro.

snvzz 4y ago

AIUI, Texas Instruments' MSP430 series[0] (which are 16-bit) is still king at low power. 0. https://embedded.fm/blog/ese101?format=amp https://embedded.fm/blog/ese101?format=amp

zokier 4y ago
While low-power has been the selling point for MSP430, in practice I understand the shitton of effort poured into making ARM power-efficient has allowed them to surpass MSP430, see e.g. https://www.eembc.org/ulpmark/ulp-cp/scores.php https://www.eembc.org/ulpmark/ulp-cp/scores.php
guenthert 4y ago
True, but (some) ATtiny are still available in beginner-friendly tth DIP package.
- watchdogtimer 4y ago
  Unfortunately, judging from the article, this doesn't appear to be true for any of the new series. Some of the new AVR series are, however. A few of these have some of the same features offered in these Tinys (e.g., 12-bit differential ADCs)
  - puzzlingcaptcha 4y ago
    8-pin SOIC packages (like 412/212) are still very easy to handle as a hobbyist. I've used them in a variety of projects.
    - BoorishBears 4y ago
      As a kid I remember ordering free MSP430 samples from TI (in DIP format) SOIC would have been completely inaccessible for me as I mostly relied on breadboards and a radio shack soldering iron with a half-corroded tip that would probably be better suited for plumbing than placing SOICs
      - unwind 4y ago
        This bears repeating every once in a while: surface-mount soldering is not very hard. It's perhaps harder than through-hole, since you don't get the benefit of having the component held mechanically, but not by a lot. The actual soldering with surface-mount stuff does not mean you have to be like an industrial robot in your precision and gently apply heat to each tiny tiny leg, while also getting the solder in there just in time, all the while holding your breath so you don't blow things away. Not at all. Surface-mount soldering can be done using way "uglier" techniques than through-hole, where you basically flood the component's legs with solder, heat it enough for it to melt and flow, and then remove the excess. Thanks to the magic of surface tension (and, if you have it, extra flux) the solder will flow to where you want it, all on its own. This kind of technique probably wouldn't cut it for production, where consistency and quality of course are important, but for hobby use it's fine! There are plenty of YouTube videos showing this off, it can be really really easy. Please don't fear surface-mount soldering. Grab (the cool side of) your iron and join the fun!
dragontamer 4y ago
I did a brief search, and it seems that at 1MHz, all of the chips discussed in this discussion so far (ATTiny, MSP430, and STM32) are all 200 uA or less, while _fully active_. Sleep modes bring that down below 50uA. So on 2x AA batteries (~3000 mA-hours), it seems like these datasheets are telling me that all these chips can consistently hit 2.5 _YEARS_ of battery life? Or 6.5+ _YEARS_ of sleep-battery life? I'm surprised at how low power modern microcontrollers are. The power-consumption metrics continue to get better-and-better year over year.
- ilyt 4y ago
  It's interesting tradeoff, because generally the bigger transistor the less quiescent current it has (=lower power when everything is off), but on the other side the bigger transistor the higher uA/MHz consumption
- squarefoot 4y ago
  A single ultra long life Li-SOCl2 D cell like the Tadiran TL5930/S could probably power one of these chips for no less than a decade. https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tadiran-Batteries/TL5930-S?qs=Yk42LiOZU8SeefDe1%2FzLBA%3D%3D https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Tadiran-Batteries/TL593...
- snvzz 4y ago
  msp430 will get you into nA territory[0]. 0. https://www.edn.com/ti-msp430-mcu-breaks-500-nano-amp-barrier/ https://www.edn.com/ti-msp430-mcu-breaks-500-nano-amp-barrie...

bragr 4y ago

I made a little LED doodads with an ATtiny running off a simple coin cell. Good for several hours of fun!