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I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV. Is it safe? It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me. Emissions? I

I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV. Is it safe? It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me. Emissions? I haven't had to do an emissions test in over a decade. It has a working catalytic converter, so there you go. Death trap? Ha. Nice labeling there. And I didn't say that driving my rig was a virtue. I said I drive it because the US lacks vehicles that match the simplicity of the 70 series Land Cruisers in TFA, and this is as about as close as one can get these days.

thatfrenchguy 4y ago
12-14mpg is not “the same as a modern SUV” by any stretch of the imagination. A RAV4 hybrid is 41mpg, or 3.41x less consumption.
- geocrasher 4y ago
  Well certainly not the same as a tiny hybrid, obviously. But, to your point, a 2023 Suburban gets 20+mpg. So there's that. It also costs $57,000 and <hyperbole> has more computers in it than a small data center </hyperbole>
- rootusrootus 4y ago
  As someone who likes the RAV4, I'd point out that it's considerably smaller than a full size body-on-frame SUV like a Suburban. It's more like a lifted Corolla, or maybe Camry. Oddly enough, they now actually make a lifted Corolla. The dimensions are quite similar.
- katbyte 4y ago
  Why are you comparing it to a hybrid? And not ever the right Toyotas. 4Runner - 17, tacoma - 19
- freeplay 4y ago
  A RAV4, like most crossovers, is a car with slightly more headroom. Not really a fair comparison. Compare it to a 2022 4Runner and you'll see that gas mileage is very similar. Toyota is known for their top tier reliability and mid to low tier gas mileage and tech.
  - hedgehog 4y ago
    Interestingly a RAV4 Hybrid with about 2500 lb total cargo including trailer gets around 28-30 mpg. The newer hybrid transaxles (P710 etc) are mechanically surprisingly simple and I could see a future where they become the preferred replacement for an all-mechanical system.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  The RAV4 is a car with a SUV Body, The Suburban is a Truck with a SUV Body Not the same thing. the Suburban is a Full Frame massive vehicle capable of towing medium sized loads, haul alot of cargo, or alot of people The RAV4 is a compact unibody vehicle capable of really no towing (though people will try), seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4) While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need
  - justin66 4y ago
    > While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need They service the same need a lot more often than you'd think: transportation for a segment of the public who'd be better off with station wagons but decided in the mid eighties those were not cool. > seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4) That's all false.
  - fomine3 4y ago
    wow how big American adults
Macha 4y ago
I checked a few local car retailers in Ireland. First, there are very few SUVs being sold that aren't at least hybrid, and full electrics dominate the 2022 lineups. Secondly, the absolute worst I saw was a BMW X5 M. This is a large car by Irish standards, and is marketed for performance, not efficiency. It costs €213,000 as a result. It gets 18mpg. Most are in the 50mpg area
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
> It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me. That would never be good enough for me these days. I got rid of a ~20 year old car a couple years ago, and the primary reason was that it was so out of date safety-wise. Cars really have made leaps and bounds in safety over the past couple decades, and it shows up in the stats. I wouldn't call my old car a "death trap", but it just couldn't compare with modern cars when it comes to safety features.
dragonwriter 4y ago
> I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get. > It met the safety standards in place when it was new The class was made and marketed to evade passenger auto safety and CAFE standards, and the government hadn’t closed the gaps it exploited yet in 1988, so that means nothing.
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get. Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality but they do that with smaller engines and tubro's which anyone that has any knowledge of mechanical wear will tell you a turbo (or any boosted) engine will wear out ALOT faster than a naturally aspirated engine. It is unlikely a 2022 Suburban;s engine will be running at all in 30 years. hell I would bet it will implode before 15 years
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality Sure, EPA ratings are inflated but you probably get close to 1 mpg over the combined EPA mileage rating of the most efficient version of the 1988 Suburban (and 50% more than your claim before you inflated it once conparative numbers were introduced) in yours. Right... > they do that with smaller engines and tubro's A naturally aspirated 5.3L, no turbos. Its true that one of the 1988s had a 6.2L, but...
    - phpisthebest 4y ago
      First I think you have confused me with the Grand Parent Commentor. That said I did go look up the Specs for a 2022, and I have no idea where you got 21/27mpg anyway, the best Chevy lists is 20 Highway with the 6.2L which drops to 14mpg in city because the Active Fuel Management does nothing for city driving Then their is a 5.3L which most suburbans will be outfitted with, which is 15/19 MPG, which as you already conceded is inflated so a real person will likely see 13-14 City and 17-18 Highway in real world, and after 10 years I of ownership I would expect that to drop of to around where the Grand parent claims their 30 year old suburban is at anyway

thatfrenchguy 4y ago

12-14mpg is not “the same as a modern SUV” by any stretch of the imagination. A RAV4 hybrid is 41mpg, or 3.41x less consumption.

geocrasher 4y ago
Well certainly not the same as a tiny hybrid, obviously. But, to your point, a 2023 Suburban gets 20+mpg. So there's that. It also costs $57,000 and <hyperbole> has more computers in it than a small data center </hyperbole>
rootusrootus 4y ago
As someone who likes the RAV4, I'd point out that it's considerably smaller than a full size body-on-frame SUV like a Suburban. It's more like a lifted Corolla, or maybe Camry. Oddly enough, they now actually make a lifted Corolla. The dimensions are quite similar.
katbyte 4y ago
Why are you comparing it to a hybrid? And not ever the right Toyotas. 4Runner - 17, tacoma - 19
freeplay 4y ago
A RAV4, like most crossovers, is a car with slightly more headroom. Not really a fair comparison. Compare it to a 2022 4Runner and you'll see that gas mileage is very similar. Toyota is known for their top tier reliability and mid to low tier gas mileage and tech.
- hedgehog 4y ago
  Interestingly a RAV4 Hybrid with about 2500 lb total cargo including trailer gets around 28-30 mpg. The newer hybrid transaxles (P710 etc) are mechanically surprisingly simple and I could see a future where they become the preferred replacement for an all-mechanical system.
phpisthebest 4y ago
The RAV4 is a car with a SUV Body, The Suburban is a Truck with a SUV Body Not the same thing. the Suburban is a Full Frame massive vehicle capable of towing medium sized loads, haul alot of cargo, or alot of people The RAV4 is a compact unibody vehicle capable of really no towing (though people will try), seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4) While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need
- justin66 4y ago
  > While they both may be technically "SUV's" it is laughable to think they service the same need They service the same need a lot more often than you'd think: transportation for a segment of the public who'd be better off with station wagons but decided in the mid eighties those were not cool. > seats only 4 (uncomfortably if they are average American Adult size, only 2 Adults can fit comfortably in a Rav4) That's all false.
- fomine3 4y ago
  wow how big American adults

Macha 4y ago

I checked a few local car retailers in Ireland. First, there are very few SUVs being sold that aren't at least hybrid, and full electrics dominate the 2022 lineups. Secondly, the absolute worst I saw was a BMW X5 M. This is a large car by Irish standards, and is marketed for performance, not efficiency. It costs €213,000 as a result. It gets 18mpg. Most are in the 50mpg area

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

> It met the safety standards in place when it was new. And that's good enough for me. That would never be good enough for me these days. I got rid of a ~20 year old car a couple years ago, and the primary reason was that it was so out of date safety-wise. Cars really have made leaps and bounds in safety over the past couple decades, and it shows up in the stats. I wouldn't call my old car a "death trap", but it just couldn't compare with modern cars when it comes to safety features.

dragonwriter 4y ago

> I get 12-14mpg, which is the same as a modern SUV A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get. > It met the safety standards in place when it was new The class was made and marketed to evade passenger auto safety and CAFE standards, and the government hadn’t closed the gaps it exploited yet in 1988, so that means nothing.

phpisthebest 4y ago
>>A comparable modern SUV (2022 Suburban) gets 21 city/27 highway, pretty close to double the mileage you get. Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality but they do that with smaller engines and tubro's which anyone that has any knowledge of mechanical wear will tell you a turbo (or any boosted) engine will wear out ALOT faster than a naturally aspirated engine. It is unlikely a 2022 Suburban;s engine will be running at all in 30 years. hell I would bet it will implode before 15 years
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Now find a real life 2022 Suburban owner that actually gets anywhere near that lab tested mileage. So while I am sure it get better than 12-14, probably closer to 18 in reality Sure, EPA ratings are inflated but you probably get close to 1 mpg over the combined EPA mileage rating of the most efficient version of the 1988 Suburban (and 50% more than your claim before you inflated it once conparative numbers were introduced) in yours. Right... > they do that with smaller engines and tubro's A naturally aspirated 5.3L, no turbos. Its true that one of the 1988s had a 6.2L, but...
  - phpisthebest 4y ago
    First I think you have confused me with the Grand Parent Commentor. That said I did go look up the Specs for a 2022, and I have no idea where you got 21/27mpg anyway, the best Chevy lists is 20 Highway with the 6.2L which drops to 14mpg in city because the Active Fuel Management does nothing for city driving Then their is a 5.3L which most suburbans will be outfitted with, which is 15/19 MPG, which as you already conceded is inflated so a real person will likely see 13-14 City and 17-18 Highway in real world, and after 10 years I of ownership I would expect that to drop of to around where the Grand parent claims their 30 year old suburban is at anyway