5 ms·

Any HN scuba divers here that would use this as their only dive computer on a dive? I'm not a scuba diver myself but do engage in other adventure sports where r

by jupp0r 4y ago

Any HN scuba divers here that would use this as their only dive computer on a dive? I'm not a scuba diver myself but do engage in other adventure sports where reliable equipment can make the difference between a great trip and disaster. I'd be very reluctant to trust my life or health to this.

jitl 4y ago
I plan to do so, and already purchased an Apple Watch Ultra for this purpose. I also started writing my own dive computer app for the watch to learn SwiftUI. My plan is to dive a few more times with both a traditional rented dive computer and the Ultra to build confidence, and then switch 100% over to the Ultra.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  I would highly recommend at least buying a cheaper secondary dive computer to take with you in case something goes wrong.
  - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
    That’s standard diving practice. You have a backup regulator and a backup dice computer. And in the event of both primært and secondsry familier you have a plan for how to handle it. But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself.
    - jakear 4y ago
      You don't dive with two regulators? I haven't been in a while but I fairly distinctly remember having two regulators per person, that way if one fails you don't have to immediately fall back on passing regulators back and forth breath-by-breath. The backup isn't a particularly nice regulator, probably reusing the mechanism your vest uses to inflate, but better than nothing.
      - jitl 4y ago
        Regulators come in two stages; you carry a backup second stage for someone else if their system fails - but you don’t carry two first stages (the part that screws onto the tank).
        izacus 4y ago
        We do carry two first stages, but mostly only in colder water when there's a chance the first stage would freeze (water under 15C or so?) :) You get air tanks that have 2 mounts for first stage and the octo goes into the separate first stage, giving you two independent setups. I've only seen crazy swiss people do that though.
        jitl 4y ago
        Wow - I stand corrected. That's super interesting. I've done mostly tropical diving, preferably in a shortie. Maybe one day I'll get dry suit certified; but I didn't enjoy diving in Monterey CA in 10C/50F water in a thick wetsuit.
        gresrun 4y ago
        In sidemount diving, each diver carries two completely independent tanks & regulators, one on each side of their body. While it is used primarily in cave diving because it is more streamlined and less likely to collide with cave ceilings and features, I find it also quite comfortable for recreational dives with a pair of AL40s. It’s also a fun conversation starter with other divers who are curious about my gear!
      - shkkmo 4y ago
        I would refuse to dive with anyone who isn't carrying two regulators. Sharing a respirator is feasible...but it requires practice to do well and significantly impairs your ability to move around or accomplish other tasks. Backup dive computers are much less common and most people use their buddy as their backup computer. It is much safer to surface without a functioning dive computer than it is to surface without a functioning regulator.
    - gruturo 4y ago
      > But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself. You're entirely welcome to have backups. I dive with 2 lights, and if the Apple Watch didn't require a subscription I'd gladly buy it to also dive with 2 computers. My divemaster had a second bottle with its own independent octopus for cave diving. Anything you can afford to double (both financially and in terms of practicality/weight/encumbrance), by all means, go ahead and do it. Triple it if makes sense.
    - threeseed 4y ago
      I don't see the point of a backup dive computer for most people. Every dive I've done has been on a boat with quite a few people all doing the same sites during the day. If your computer failed you can still estimate NDL from others on the boat and just err on the side of caution. Or even just rely on paper charts like people did for decades. If you're doing cave diving then obviously a whole different story.
      - kevinskii 4y ago
        I agree, I don't know anyone offhand who uses two computers for recreational diving, and I would absolutely use an Apple watch as my sole dive computer. If you have a computer malfunction you can still safely return to the surface. The only reason to perhaps carry a backup is if you've traveled a long way or otherwise invested a lot of money in the trip.
9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago
Given that the app developer is a manufacturer of dive computers (including a watch), it’s likely to be relatively trustworthy. Nonetheless, from the press release: “Always follow diving protocols and dive with a companion and have a secondary device.”
- ashtonbaker 4y ago
  That sounds like overkill CYA from the legal department. Diving with two computers is not standard protocol in no-decompression recreational diving. It is in technical diving. But if you're in open water, and within no-deco limits, if your computer fails, you can always just end the dive.
  - isitmadeofglass 4y ago
    As I recall PADI recommendations is to have a backup plan equivalent to the primary plan. Which often is easiest with redundant devices and each buddy having the same or similar computer. I think it’s very much not recommended to have going computerless as a backup. And the idea that you are safe to do so because your “within no-deco limits” is potentially dangerous, as your relying on the computer to tell you if you are still within that limit. Many people go quite close to the limit. Personally I stay far away from them, but safety recommendations are the same for everyone.
    - ashtonbaker 4y ago
      I think you're saying that PADI's recommendation that "you should have a backup plan" means implicitly that you should dive with two computers. They wouldn't make that an implicit recommendation, they would make it an explicit one. Which they do not. At least not for open water recreational diving. The backup plan for recreational open water diving would typically be to end the dive if your computer fails, not to continue computerless. At the point that your computer failed, you should have been within no-deco limits, which you can confirm with your partner's computer to a reasonable margin of safety, so you can ascend safely.
bitwrangler 4y ago
it says it's rated to 40 meters, which is good for most recreational diving. This would not apply for deeper dives. I'm curious to see what they have for using it with diver communication and collaboration. If one diver sees something of interest, they can easily notify other divers. I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? The haptic vibration would be useful to notify about reaching maximum bottom time, and for decompression rest stops while ascending. But I think I would still keep my traditional dive computer next to pressure gauge in my diving setup. I wonder if they will have a wireless pressure sensor on the tank so you can also track air pressure and consumption? That would be neat.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  > I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? Water tends to block most radio signals pretty quickly. If you are trying to wirelessly transmit data underwater you get much, much better range with sound than you do with light.
- iamacyborg 4y ago
  > I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? It doesn’t, which is why heart rate monitors intended for swimming activities have on-board storage.
- jitl 4y ago
  Bluetooth doesn’t work underwater. Water loves to absorb 2.4ghz signals. I dive with both my iPhone and Apple Watch Ultra and they can’t communicate underwater unless they’re actually touching.
  - scrumper 4y ago
    Oh that's interesting. Made me go digging. It turns out those air integration wireless tank sensors use very low frequencies, 38kHz. MH8A is the relevant FCC ID.
  - sarpeedo 4y ago
    Curiously, 2.4ghz light corresponds to microwaves which is actually long wavelength low energy light. If you have a video stream on while the microwave oven is turned on you'll notice large enough interference to disconnect your stream. The fact that water absorbs 2.4ghz light is what enables microwave ovens to heat water in the first place. So while it's an inconvenient property during dives, it's very convenient in the kitchen.
latchkey 4y ago
I've done a lot of dives, in the late 80's, early 90's. We didn't have any of this fancy stuff. For sure, you never rely on a single piece of equipment. Except for more advanced (deeper) dives, a dive computer is fairly unnecessary. 700 lbs of air pressure left, go back up, slowly. I did most of my diving right off the coast of san diego, where there are amazing kelp forests. I preferred less deep dives (35-50 feet) anyway... you start going deep, you have much less air/time down below. I would assume this to be a very tiny market for users.
scrumper 4y ago
Not my only, but if I was starting out again I'd consider an apple watch ultra over a dedicated computer. Consequences of computer failure on a well-planned open water rec dive are fairly minimal. This doodad, plus a backup basic watch capable of working at that depth (so you have an idea of time although really your decision to surface is largely driven by air remaining) and I'd be confident. Ascent rate is the only unknown then, but you have a buddy or a group to follow. If you're really unlucky, losing your computer and your group, you just remember your training and swim up really really slowly. Missing your safety stop isn't going to kill you. Losing your dive boat might though :)
lolsoftware 4y ago
I'm a recreational diver. I wouldn't use this as my _only_ computer, but I would say the same for the computers I currently use. I always dive with 2 computers just in case one fails, a battery dies, etc. As 'latchkey said, never rely on a single piece of equipment. With that being said, I would be willing to swap out my wrist computer for the Apple Watch Ultra. The superior display and UX would actually be a big quality of life improvement over my current wrist computer. And, I'd still have my backup computer in my SPG to compare against or fall back to.
- tjohns 4y ago
  Personally, I'm comfortable diving with one computer... provided I also have an analog SPG (as a backup for an air-integrated computer) and run the dive tables on paper as well. If the dive computer fails, I just revert to paper.
threeseed 4y ago
I just spent a month in Thailand diving around the sites near to BKK e.g. Koh Chang with the Apple Watch and used it as my only underwater computer. I had a proper dive computer on the boat to help with planning. a) You never trust your life to any single device and there are always backup plans if something fails. And at recreational depths you're not going to do severe damage if your watch fails and you lose no decompression limit information. b) The watch is such a joy to use underwater. It's 100x brighter and clearer than other devices so you see information at a glance. It actually made the whole diving experience better it was that good. c) I've had Apple Watches since the original one and reliability has always been excellent. Easily on par with other dive computers. And of course the ease and quality of the user experience is significantly better.
- jupp0r 4y ago
  > I've had Apple Watches since the original one and reliability has always been excellent. I've had numerous activity tracking apps crash on me randomly, I think because they have been running out of memory on my Apple Watch 3. Strava was one of them. I stopped using it for this purpose after I lost a few tracks.
  - KennyBlanken 4y ago
    With such an old device my guess would be that the battery's internal resistance is high enough that the watch is browning out. Either that or the watch is throttling to prevent browning out, and the app crashes as a result of loops / event handling not happening fast enough and stuff 'piling up.'
izacus 4y ago
As a recreational diver I meet many people diving within recreational limits that don't use diving computers at all (they usually rely on their DM or guide dive computer which is good enough for < 30m dives people do recreationally). For that reason the Apple Watch Ultra seems just fine - it doesn't seem to have any less features than my dedicated Suunto D5 (outside missing integration with air tank) and it seems to be a good competitor to Garmin's Descent MK2 series of diving computers (which are pretty amazing but cost 1200$+ with tank pods).
TreeRingCounter 4y ago
Absolutely not! Apple's hardware keeps getting better, but their software reliability has been quite bad over the last 10-ish years. A dive computer is a safety-critical machine - an apple watch is not suitable as a primary unit. Maybe if you're doing only very casual dives and you don't mind the risk of having to do an emergency surface, it is fine.
- zaroth 4y ago
  I’ve only done a half dozen dives, but losing the computer isn’t what I’d call an emergency. You call the dive and surface slowly. Maybe you don’t do a second dive if you can’t be sure of your limits. It’s an inconvenience.
jonfw 4y ago
a dive computer is more of a "nice to have" then a necessity. You can calculate everything you need to know after the fact, if you have a good idea of your average depth and downtime. If you're a casual diver (i.e. two dives a day on vacation, maybe a night dive here and there) you don't need a computer at all
kshahkshah 4y ago
I've done a lot of dives, not in many years since having kids, you should not need a computer in order to dive. This is non-essential gear. I'm sure people who regularly dive (like have a 100+ dives) may disagree.

by jupp0r 4y ago

jitl 4y ago

I plan to do so, and already purchased an Apple Watch Ultra for this purpose. I also started writing my own dive computer app for the watch to learn SwiftUI. My plan is to dive a few more times with both a traditional rented dive computer and the Ultra to build confidence, and then switch 100% over to the Ultra.

shkkmo 4y ago
I would highly recommend at least buying a cheaper secondary dive computer to take with you in case something goes wrong.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  That’s standard diving practice. You have a backup regulator and a backup dice computer. And in the event of both primært and secondsry familier you have a plan for how to handle it. But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself.
  - jakear 4y ago
    You don't dive with two regulators? I haven't been in a while but I fairly distinctly remember having two regulators per person, that way if one fails you don't have to immediately fall back on passing regulators back and forth breath-by-breath. The backup isn't a particularly nice regulator, probably reusing the mechanism your vest uses to inflate, but better than nothing.
    - jitl 4y ago
      Regulators come in two stages; you carry a backup second stage for someone else if their system fails - but you don’t carry two first stages (the part that screws onto the tank).
      - izacus 4y ago
        We do carry two first stages, but mostly only in colder water when there's a chance the first stage would freeze (water under 15C or so?) :) You get air tanks that have 2 mounts for first stage and the octo goes into the separate first stage, giving you two independent setups. I've only seen crazy swiss people do that though.
        jitl 4y ago
        Wow - I stand corrected. That's super interesting. I've done mostly tropical diving, preferably in a shortie. Maybe one day I'll get dry suit certified; but I didn't enjoy diving in Monterey CA in 10C/50F water in a thick wetsuit.
      - gresrun 4y ago
        In sidemount diving, each diver carries two completely independent tanks & regulators, one on each side of their body. While it is used primarily in cave diving because it is more streamlined and less likely to collide with cave ceilings and features, I find it also quite comfortable for recreational dives with a pair of AL40s. It’s also a fun conversation starter with other divers who are curious about my gear!
    - shkkmo 4y ago
      I would refuse to dive with anyone who isn't carrying two regulators. Sharing a respirator is feasible...but it requires practice to do well and significantly impairs your ability to move around or accomplish other tasks. Backup dive computers are much less common and most people use their buddy as their backup computer. It is much safer to surface without a functioning dive computer than it is to surface without a functioning regulator.
  - gruturo 4y ago
    > But both the backup regulator and dice computer is on your companion. You don’t dive with two yourself. You're entirely welcome to have backups. I dive with 2 lights, and if the Apple Watch didn't require a subscription I'd gladly buy it to also dive with 2 computers. My divemaster had a second bottle with its own independent octopus for cave diving. Anything you can afford to double (both financially and in terms of practicality/weight/encumbrance), by all means, go ahead and do it. Triple it if makes sense.
  - threeseed 4y ago
    I don't see the point of a backup dive computer for most people. Every dive I've done has been on a boat with quite a few people all doing the same sites during the day. If your computer failed you can still estimate NDL from others on the boat and just err on the side of caution. Or even just rely on paper charts like people did for decades. If you're doing cave diving then obviously a whole different story.
    - kevinskii 4y ago
      I agree, I don't know anyone offhand who uses two computers for recreational diving, and I would absolutely use an Apple watch as my sole dive computer. If you have a computer malfunction you can still safely return to the surface. The only reason to perhaps carry a backup is if you've traveled a long way or otherwise invested a lot of money in the trip.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 4y ago

Given that the app developer is a manufacturer of dive computers (including a watch), it’s likely to be relatively trustworthy. Nonetheless, from the press release: “Always follow diving protocols and dive with a companion and have a secondary device.”

ashtonbaker 4y ago
That sounds like overkill CYA from the legal department. Diving with two computers is not standard protocol in no-decompression recreational diving. It is in technical diving. But if you're in open water, and within no-deco limits, if your computer fails, you can always just end the dive.
- isitmadeofglass 4y ago
  As I recall PADI recommendations is to have a backup plan equivalent to the primary plan. Which often is easiest with redundant devices and each buddy having the same or similar computer. I think it’s very much not recommended to have going computerless as a backup. And the idea that you are safe to do so because your “within no-deco limits” is potentially dangerous, as your relying on the computer to tell you if you are still within that limit. Many people go quite close to the limit. Personally I stay far away from them, but safety recommendations are the same for everyone.
  - ashtonbaker 4y ago
    I think you're saying that PADI's recommendation that "you should have a backup plan" means implicitly that you should dive with two computers. They wouldn't make that an implicit recommendation, they would make it an explicit one. Which they do not. At least not for open water recreational diving. The backup plan for recreational open water diving would typically be to end the dive if your computer fails, not to continue computerless. At the point that your computer failed, you should have been within no-deco limits, which you can confirm with your partner's computer to a reasonable margin of safety, so you can ascend safely.

bitwrangler 4y ago

it says it's rated to 40 meters, which is good for most recreational diving. This would not apply for deeper dives. I'm curious to see what they have for using it with diver communication and collaboration. If one diver sees something of interest, they can easily notify other divers. I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? The haptic vibration would be useful to notify about reaching maximum bottom time, and for decompression rest stops while ascending. But I think I would still keep my traditional dive computer next to pressure gauge in my diving setup. I wonder if they will have a wireless pressure sensor on the tank so you can also track air pressure and consumption? That would be neat.

shkkmo 4y ago
> I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? Water tends to block most radio signals pretty quickly. If you are trying to wirelessly transmit data underwater you get much, much better range with sound than you do with light.
iamacyborg 4y ago
> I'm not sure if or how well Bluetooth works underwater? It doesn’t, which is why heart rate monitors intended for swimming activities have on-board storage.
jitl 4y ago
Bluetooth doesn’t work underwater. Water loves to absorb 2.4ghz signals. I dive with both my iPhone and Apple Watch Ultra and they can’t communicate underwater unless they’re actually touching.
- scrumper 4y ago
  Oh that's interesting. Made me go digging. It turns out those air integration wireless tank sensors use very low frequencies, 38kHz. MH8A is the relevant FCC ID.
- sarpeedo 4y ago
  Curiously, 2.4ghz light corresponds to microwaves which is actually long wavelength low energy light. If you have a video stream on while the microwave oven is turned on you'll notice large enough interference to disconnect your stream. The fact that water absorbs 2.4ghz light is what enables microwave ovens to heat water in the first place. So while it's an inconvenient property during dives, it's very convenient in the kitchen.

latchkey 4y ago

I've done a lot of dives, in the late 80's, early 90's. We didn't have any of this fancy stuff. For sure, you never rely on a single piece of equipment. Except for more advanced (deeper) dives, a dive computer is fairly unnecessary. 700 lbs of air pressure left, go back up, slowly. I did most of my diving right off the coast of san diego, where there are amazing kelp forests. I preferred less deep dives (35-50 feet) anyway... you start going deep, you have much less air/time down below. I would assume this to be a very tiny market for users.

scrumper 4y ago

Not my only, but if I was starting out again I'd consider an apple watch ultra over a dedicated computer. Consequences of computer failure on a well-planned open water rec dive are fairly minimal. This doodad, plus a backup basic watch capable of working at that depth (so you have an idea of time although really your decision to surface is largely driven by air remaining) and I'd be confident. Ascent rate is the only unknown then, but you have a buddy or a group to follow. If you're really unlucky, losing your computer and your group, you just remember your training and swim up really really slowly. Missing your safety stop isn't going to kill you. Losing your dive boat might though :)

lolsoftware 4y ago

I'm a recreational diver. I wouldn't use this as my _only_ computer, but I would say the same for the computers I currently use. I always dive with 2 computers just in case one fails, a battery dies, etc. As 'latchkey said, never rely on a single piece of equipment. With that being said, I would be willing to swap out my wrist computer for the Apple Watch Ultra. The superior display and UX would actually be a big quality of life improvement over my current wrist computer. And, I'd still have my backup computer in my SPG to compare against or fall back to.

tjohns 4y ago
Personally, I'm comfortable diving with one computer... provided I also have an analog SPG (as a backup for an air-integrated computer) and run the dive tables on paper as well. If the dive computer fails, I just revert to paper.

threeseed 4y ago

I just spent a month in Thailand diving around the sites near to BKK e.g. Koh Chang with the Apple Watch and used it as my only underwater computer. I had a proper dive computer on the boat to help with planning. a) You never trust your life to any single device and there are always backup plans if something fails. And at recreational depths you're not going to do severe damage if your watch fails and you lose no decompression limit information. b) The watch is such a joy to use underwater. It's 100x brighter and clearer than other devices so you see information at a glance. It actually made the whole diving experience better it was that good. c) I've had Apple Watches since the original one and reliability has always been excellent. Easily on par with other dive computers. And of course the ease and quality of the user experience is significantly better.

jupp0r 4y ago
> I've had Apple Watches since the original one and reliability has always been excellent. I've had numerous activity tracking apps crash on me randomly, I think because they have been running out of memory on my Apple Watch 3. Strava was one of them. I stopped using it for this purpose after I lost a few tracks.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  With such an old device my guess would be that the battery's internal resistance is high enough that the watch is browning out. Either that or the watch is throttling to prevent browning out, and the app crashes as a result of loops / event handling not happening fast enough and stuff 'piling up.'

izacus 4y ago

As a recreational diver I meet many people diving within recreational limits that don't use diving computers at all (they usually rely on their DM or guide dive computer which is good enough for < 30m dives people do recreationally). For that reason the Apple Watch Ultra seems just fine - it doesn't seem to have any less features than my dedicated Suunto D5 (outside missing integration with air tank) and it seems to be a good competitor to Garmin's Descent MK2 series of diving computers (which are pretty amazing but cost 1200$+ with tank pods).

TreeRingCounter 4y ago

Absolutely not! Apple's hardware keeps getting better, but their software reliability has been quite bad over the last 10-ish years. A dive computer is a safety-critical machine - an apple watch is not suitable as a primary unit. Maybe if you're doing only very casual dives and you don't mind the risk of having to do an emergency surface, it is fine.

zaroth 4y ago
I’ve only done a half dozen dives, but losing the computer isn’t what I’d call an emergency. You call the dive and surface slowly. Maybe you don’t do a second dive if you can’t be sure of your limits. It’s an inconvenience.

jonfw 4y ago

a dive computer is more of a "nice to have" then a necessity. You can calculate everything you need to know after the fact, if you have a good idea of your average depth and downtime. If you're a casual diver (i.e. two dives a day on vacation, maybe a night dive here and there) you don't need a computer at all

kshahkshah 4y ago

I've done a lot of dives, not in many years since having kids, you should not need a computer in order to dive. This is non-essential gear. I'm sure people who regularly dive (like have a 100+ dives) may disagree.