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Years ago I worked with a guy who used to sell computer equipment to businesses. He told me that when he went to different divisions in each company, they all

Years ago I worked with a guy who used to sell computer equipment to businesses. He told me that when he went to different divisions in each company, they all had org/structure charts somewhere around the office. And in every one of them, their section was in the middle and everybody else was serviced by them. No matter what you did, you were the center of the universe to you. Likewise, I've had experience building and working on many computer systems for businesses. Each of them, if successful, wants to handle not just their thing but everything for their customers. No matter what they did, they wanted to be the center of the universe for their customers. You can laugh at these examples, and we all know most software companies have much great ambition than they do traction, but Facebook and Google are actually doing this. They are becoming the center of the information universe to their customers. This is not a good thing.

zombielifestyle 15y ago
i can't manage fb to share location information from friend accounts. if 2 accounts upload an (similar) image including one active check-in fb only suggests locations based on the check-ins of that active account. this is even true for public images. until someone provides a POC that states the opposite it's just YOUR data that YOU freely give to fb. no magic behind, just FUD. responded to top post for karmawhoring. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3377267 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3377267
- rhizome 15y ago
  I've been working for some time (solo) on a concept that could manage to alleviate some of your concerns. There are ways around them today (API), but who knows if they'll be foreclosed upon in the future. Like many old farts, I imagine, I see your post in terms of the thick-client/thin-client battles of years past. I don't think FB will ever see it in their interests to completely close their garden, which would really be remaking the mistakes of the past, but stranger things have happened.
safetyscissors 15y ago
Its also not a good thing that we don't know who Facebook or Google is selling this or giving this information to. The advertising agencies, meh kinda. The organisations with acronyms, they are more worrisome. I also wonder, to what extent the amount of information they have about the average user.
- rhizome 15y ago
  FYI: "The Carlyle Group" = CIA
- Xavi 15y ago
  BTW, Google seems to be pretty open with what they know about you. Here are two links where they display an explicit list: https://www.google.com/dashboard/ https://www.google.com/dashboard/ and http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/ http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/
  - deno 15y ago
    This is certainly not everything they know about you. This is part of their initiative to be not-evil, it’s called Data Liberation Front[1]. In their own words: > Loyalty, not lock-in. We firmly believe you control your data, so we have a team of engineers whose only goal is to help you take your information with you. [2] It’s absolutely terrific that they have something like this. Many others had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. However, this is just not relevant to the topic at hand. This is “your data”, the data that you deliberately created, rather than revealed accidentally. The point of the project is to avoid vendor lock-in, rather than to protect your privacy. If you’re EU resident, you should be able to just write to them and they have to reveal everything they have on you. And that list will be entirely different from this. [1] http://www.dataliberation.org/ http://www.dataliberation.org/ [2] http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/supporting-choice-ensuring-economic.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/supporting-choice-ens...
infoleak 15y ago
Google seems to have no qualms about supplying information when asked by some local police station in Bangalore. (don't remember which one, ie, Vijaynagar policestation ). Came to know this from a colleague at the startup I'm working. I think we were asked for some customer information. When we replied that we will have to think about the legal aspect , the police guy retorted "When companies like Google give us what we want without any hassles,what is your problem?"
jemfinch 15y ago
> They are becoming the center of the information universe to their customers. This is not a good thing. Why isn't it?
- pilgrim689 15y ago
  I believe the argument is that having all your information in one service (Google, Facebook,..) is like having all your eggs in one basket. Then, if the company decides to sell your information, lose it, etc., it's too easy, and you're left empty-handed. However, I think that if that 1 service makes it possible for you to backup all your information and allows you to remove all the information from their service if you want to, then it shouldn't be a problem... but I might be underplaying their argument...
  - jemfinch 15y ago
    > However, I think that if that 1 service makes it possible for you to backup all your information and allows you to remove all the information from their service if you want to, then it shouldn't be a problem... Something like Google's Data Liberation Front? http://www.dataliberation.org/ http://www.dataliberation.org/ I put all my eggs in one basket every time I take the family to the grocery store. It's unclear to me why storing all my information with Google is any worse than piling my wife and kids into the Odyssey.
    - boredguy8 15y ago
      When you drive, your goals and the goals of everyone else on the road are roughly aligned insofar as you all want to travel from one place to another place quickly and safely. There are pretty rough consequences for those whose goals aren't similarly aligned. So yes, you could be killed by someone else driving drunk, but it's relatively unlikely. Google's goals and mine aren't aligned at all, except instrumentally. So Google cares about my privacy up to and until it costs them less to not care than to care. I'm fully in the Google camp, but let's be honest about the fact that we've made a deal with some supernatural being. We just hope it turns out not to be the devil.

zombielifestyle 15y ago

i can't manage fb to share location information from friend accounts. if 2 accounts upload an (similar) image including one active check-in fb only suggests locations based on the check-ins of that active account. this is even true for public images. until someone provides a POC that states the opposite it's just YOUR data that YOU freely give to fb. no magic behind, just FUD. responded to top post for karmawhoring. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3377267 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3377267

rhizome 15y ago
I've been working for some time (solo) on a concept that could manage to alleviate some of your concerns. There are ways around them today (API), but who knows if they'll be foreclosed upon in the future. Like many old farts, I imagine, I see your post in terms of the thick-client/thin-client battles of years past. I don't think FB will ever see it in their interests to completely close their garden, which would really be remaking the mistakes of the past, but stranger things have happened.

safetyscissors 15y ago

Its also not a good thing that we don't know who Facebook or Google is selling this or giving this information to. The advertising agencies, meh kinda. The organisations with acronyms, they are more worrisome. I also wonder, to what extent the amount of information they have about the average user.

rhizome 15y ago
FYI: "The Carlyle Group" = CIA
Xavi 15y ago
BTW, Google seems to be pretty open with what they know about you. Here are two links where they display an explicit list: https://www.google.com/dashboard/ https://www.google.com/dashboard/ and http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/ http://www.google.com/ads/preferences/
- deno 15y ago
  This is certainly not everything they know about you. This is part of their initiative to be not-evil, it’s called Data Liberation Front[1]. In their own words: > Loyalty, not lock-in. We firmly believe you control your data, so we have a team of engineers whose only goal is to help you take your information with you. [2] It’s absolutely terrific that they have something like this. Many others had to be dragged there kicking and screaming. However, this is just not relevant to the topic at hand. This is “your data”, the data that you deliberately created, rather than revealed accidentally. The point of the project is to avoid vendor lock-in, rather than to protect your privacy. If you’re EU resident, you should be able to just write to them and they have to reveal everything they have on you. And that list will be entirely different from this. [1] http://www.dataliberation.org/ http://www.dataliberation.org/ [2] http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/supporting-choice-ensuring-economic.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2011/06/supporting-choice-ens...

infoleak 15y ago

Google seems to have no qualms about supplying information when asked by some local police station in Bangalore. (don't remember which one, ie, Vijaynagar policestation ). Came to know this from a colleague at the startup I'm working. I think we were asked for some customer information. When we replied that we will have to think about the legal aspect , the police guy retorted "When companies like Google give us what we want without any hassles,what is your problem?"

jemfinch 15y ago

> They are becoming the center of the information universe to their customers. This is not a good thing. Why isn't it?

pilgrim689 15y ago
I believe the argument is that having all your information in one service (Google, Facebook,..) is like having all your eggs in one basket. Then, if the company decides to sell your information, lose it, etc., it's too easy, and you're left empty-handed. However, I think that if that 1 service makes it possible for you to backup all your information and allows you to remove all the information from their service if you want to, then it shouldn't be a problem... but I might be underplaying their argument...
- jemfinch 15y ago
  > However, I think that if that 1 service makes it possible for you to backup all your information and allows you to remove all the information from their service if you want to, then it shouldn't be a problem... Something like Google's Data Liberation Front? http://www.dataliberation.org/ http://www.dataliberation.org/ I put all my eggs in one basket every time I take the family to the grocery store. It's unclear to me why storing all my information with Google is any worse than piling my wife and kids into the Odyssey.
  - boredguy8 15y ago
    When you drive, your goals and the goals of everyone else on the road are roughly aligned insofar as you all want to travel from one place to another place quickly and safely. There are pretty rough consequences for those whose goals aren't similarly aligned. So yes, you could be killed by someone else driving drunk, but it's relatively unlikely. Google's goals and mine aren't aligned at all, except instrumentally. So Google cares about my privacy up to and until it costs them less to not care than to care. I'm fully in the Google camp, but let's be honest about the fact that we've made a deal with some supernatural being. We just hope it turns out not to be the devil.