6 ms·

PSA: Do Not Use Services That Hate the Internet

68 points by lehi 4y ago

charcircuit 4y ago
This article confuses the web with the internet. There are many applications that use the internet, but are not themselves websites.
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  No, it does not. It’s pretty clear that whatever Hive is (as well as other content silos), it uses the Internet to communicate with the mothership but does not meaningfully participate in the World Wide Web (aka the web). The article speaks of this exact scenario.
- kelnos 4y ago
  No, he is not confused at all. He's specifically railing against walled-garden, closed services where your only access to them requires a mobile app (which of course uses the internet), and has no (or limited) web-based functionality. (Also note that this is Jamie Zawinski, who wrote the UNIX version of Netscape in the 90s. I don't think a guy who wrote a web browser would be confused about the difference between the web and the internet.)
- seanhunter 4y ago
  He repeatedly says “only use one that is part of the world wide web”. I’m not sure how you got from that that he is confused. Also it’s kind of funny that someone would think jwz would make that mistake.
  - charcircuit 4y ago
    He said that mobile social apps that don't have web presence hate the internet. These apps don't hate the internet because without it they wouldn't work. The majority of people use mobile apps instead of websites for social apps so it is not a big priority for these apps to invest in recreating the app on the web.
    - squarefoot 4y ago
      The Internet was created with openness and interoperability in mind, so although I may not agree with some of his most extreme opinions on other subjects, he's spot on when he criticizes the app-only approach. A lot of services can be accessed only by phone apps, the reason being that mobile platforms aren't "plagued" by open protocols, so they're easier to monetize because there's no open competition.
    - arein3 4y ago
      No, they want people to use the app so that they could be tracked better. An example is reddit, which makes the mobile web experience awful to force people to install their shitty application.
noobermin 4y ago
An aside to those curious, linking to jwz's blog from HN is not liked by him, and the website, if it detects a direct visitor HN redirects to a vulgar NSFW image. This apparently is a work around.
- deafpolygon 4y ago
  why?
- happytoexplain 4y ago
  I can understand not wanting the traffic, but it sounds like he has something personal against the HN userbase. Do you know what that is?
  - aliqot 4y ago
    It's complicated.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - opportune 4y ago
    Some people have a deep intrinsic need to be contrarian. His criticisms of HN are especially ironic given his involvement in startups and his fortune coming from a Netscape liquidity event
  - ghusto 4y ago
    Check the link to the "NSFW" image. If you don't want to: My interpretation is that he sees it as a place where business ruins good-will technologists.
  - bearmode 4y ago
    Most people on here are libertarian techbros. Hard not to hate.
jazzyjackson 4y ago
I eventually figured out how to get the URL of a facebook post (you click the timestamp and it will bring you to a page with just that post with a permalink - this is not exposed in the ... dropdown menu) but I was puzzled when trying to refer someone to a comment that answered their question, there is no way to hyperlink to a comment ! they don't have URLs!
- charcircuit 4y ago
  >there is no way to hyperlink to a comment ! they don't have URLs! It's the same. Click on the timestamp of the comment or just right click copy link on the comment.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
theCrowing 4y ago
The bi yearly angry gorilla post from jwz. How is it that always people that actually had the means to change something are the biggest cry babies? I guess it's remorse?
pieresqi 4y ago
Just because something is part of Internet does not mean they need to participate in World Wide Web and if they are not participating does not mean they hate Internet. Imagine that every internet connected device needs to have webpage. Ridiculous.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  I agree that it's a clunky simplification, but the point is clear. Just read "non-vendor supplied client" for every spot "browser" appears. If it doesn't support custom clients-- as real, first-class citizens, rather than a Twitter-style "we'll hobble the API access of any successful client" mentality, you're not going to get external search, interoperability, or much user control.

68 points by lehi 4y ago

This article confuses the web with the internet. There are many applications that use the internet, but are not themselves websites.

selfhoster11 4y ago
No, it does not. It’s pretty clear that whatever Hive is (as well as other content silos), it uses the Internet to communicate with the mothership but does not meaningfully participate in the World Wide Web (aka the web). The article speaks of this exact scenario.
kelnos 4y ago
No, he is not confused at all. He's specifically railing against walled-garden, closed services where your only access to them requires a mobile app (which of course uses the internet), and has no (or limited) web-based functionality. (Also note that this is Jamie Zawinski, who wrote the UNIX version of Netscape in the 90s. I don't think a guy who wrote a web browser would be confused about the difference between the web and the internet.)
seanhunter 4y ago
He repeatedly says “only use one that is part of the world wide web”. I’m not sure how you got from that that he is confused. Also it’s kind of funny that someone would think jwz would make that mistake.
- charcircuit 4y ago
  He said that mobile social apps that don't have web presence hate the internet. These apps don't hate the internet because without it they wouldn't work. The majority of people use mobile apps instead of websites for social apps so it is not a big priority for these apps to invest in recreating the app on the web.
  - squarefoot 4y ago
    The Internet was created with openness and interoperability in mind, so although I may not agree with some of his most extreme opinions on other subjects, he's spot on when he criticizes the app-only approach. A lot of services can be accessed only by phone apps, the reason being that mobile platforms aren't "plagued" by open protocols, so they're easier to monetize because there's no open competition.
  - arein3 4y ago
    No, they want people to use the app so that they could be tracked better. An example is reddit, which makes the mobile web experience awful to force people to install their shitty application.

noobermin 4y ago

An aside to those curious, linking to jwz's blog from HN is not liked by him, and the website, if it detects a direct visitor HN redirects to a vulgar NSFW image. This apparently is a work around.

deafpolygon 4y ago
why?
happytoexplain 4y ago
I can understand not wanting the traffic, but it sounds like he has something personal against the HN userbase. Do you know what that is?
- aliqot 4y ago
  It's complicated.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- opportune 4y ago
  Some people have a deep intrinsic need to be contrarian. His criticisms of HN are especially ironic given his involvement in startups and his fortune coming from a Netscape liquidity event
- ghusto 4y ago
  Check the link to the "NSFW" image. If you don't want to: My interpretation is that he sees it as a place where business ruins good-will technologists.
- bearmode 4y ago
  Most people on here are libertarian techbros. Hard not to hate.

jazzyjackson 4y ago

I eventually figured out how to get the URL of a facebook post (you click the timestamp and it will bring you to a page with just that post with a permalink - this is not exposed in the ... dropdown menu) but I was puzzled when trying to refer someone to a comment that answered their question, there is no way to hyperlink to a comment ! they don't have URLs!

charcircuit 4y ago
>there is no way to hyperlink to a comment ! they don't have URLs! It's the same. Click on the timestamp of the comment or just right click copy link on the comment.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

theCrowing 4y ago

The bi yearly angry gorilla post from jwz. How is it that always people that actually had the means to change something are the biggest cry babies? I guess it's remorse?

pieresqi 4y ago

Just because something is part of Internet does not mean they need to participate in World Wide Web and if they are not participating does not mean they hate Internet. Imagine that every internet connected device needs to have webpage. Ridiculous.

hakfoo 4y ago
I agree that it's a clunky simplification, but the point is clear. Just read "non-vendor supplied client" for every spot "browser" appears. If it doesn't support custom clients-- as real, first-class citizens, rather than a Twitter-style "we'll hobble the API access of any successful client" mentality, you're not going to get external search, interoperability, or much user control.