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I don’t think that is true at all. There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. The price someone is willing to pay for it changes frequently. Crypt

I don’t think that is true at all. There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. The price someone is willing to pay for it changes frequently. Crypto is closer to art than anything else. I get less value from a rothko than someone else may

ratg13 4y ago
Relevant Warren Buffet commentary on crypto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVm7Pfb0ilY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVm7Pfb0ilY
- m00dy 4y ago
  I'm not sure he is able to understand blockchain concepts like proof of work etc.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > not sure he is able to understand blockchain concepts like proof of work Which is irrelevant to the value of a consensus-based currency, other than as a smoke screen for naive investors and catnip to the technically minded.
  - tiahura 4y ago
    You didn’t need to be a botanist to realize the market for tulip bulbs was going to crash.
    - m00dy 4y ago
      dude, everything crashed, stocks and even bonds. UK just bailed out pension funds. This proves that Bitcoin has became an asset class and it is very early.
everfree 4y ago
> There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. It doesn't entitle you to profits, it doesn't entitle you to assets (except in bankruptcy), you can't eat it, and it's only worth what other people will pay you for it. Unlike a rothko, I can't hang it in my living room. Where's the value?
- thepasswordis 4y ago
  Well you see at some point in the future I can hope to sell it to somebody else for more money than I paid!
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > doesn't entitle you to assets (except in bankruptcy) Of course it does. When the company is sold, you are entitled to the proceeds. M&A is the ultimate enforcer of equity value.
  - everfree 4y ago
    > When the company is sold, you are entitled to the proceeds. So in other words, your share is worth what other people will pay you for it. I already said that. A whole-company sale is just an event where all shares are bought at once.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- __jem 4y ago
  It absolutely does entitle you to profits, either in the form of dividends or stock buybacks.
  - everfree 4y ago
    If Google decided to keep their profits on their balance sheet instead of paying dividends or doing buybacks, what would my recourse be? I can't just vote in a dividend, because founders Larry and Sergey control 51% of the voting power. Shares don't entitle you to profits at all.
    - __jem 4y ago
      Just because I can't walk into Google headquarters and demand a dividend doesn't mean that I don't still own some portion of those profits. Yes, finance is complicated, but there's no corporate board on this planet that would accept indefinite stockpiling of cash, which is why buybacks happen, including for Google!
lrvick 4y ago
There is economic value in inflation resistance, censorship resistance, and privacy. The fact most get-rich-traders do not care about these things and -also- speculate is irrelevant to the fundamental value.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > inflation resistance Bitcoin hyperinflated in the last year.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    There is a fixed total amount of Bitcoin that will ever exist, and they are released the the market over time. Bitcoin is not inflationary.
    - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
      > fixed total amount of Bitcoin that will ever exist It has a fixed supply. (Currently. An unknown number of miners could always increase it.) > Bitcoin is not inflationary Of course it is. One Bitcoin buys 75% fewer goods and services than it did a year ago. Taking advantage of people who mistake money supply for inflation is one of crypto’s scams.
      - andirk 4y ago
        When one says bitcoin is not inflationary, they mean that the supply does not inflate. You are accurate that bitcoin's purchasing power can wane aka deflate. In my opinion and many others it is moot because everything deflates. As far as we know, there is not a single thing in existence that is void of inflation by your usage of the term. Therefore, we move beyond that version of the definition to the practical and useful definition which is that it cannot be added to numerically. English is my first language and those sentences are crap, but I think you get what I mean.
        JumpCrisscross 4y ago
thefaux 4y ago
Interesting analogy. It is true that much, if not most, high end art is purchased as a speculative investment, just like crypto.
- rout39574 4y ago
  It's possible that you misspelled "Money laundering instrument". ;)
runarberg 4y ago
You are right about the general case (not everything is a ponzi) but you’re wrong about the example. If you make money out of a piece of equity in Google, then somebody made that money but didn’t get it, either by buying the same amount of equity for more money then you, or by creating value through working at google but not getting that value paid in salary. This sounds like a ponzi with investors at the top of the pyramid and workers at the bottom. A better example of something that isn’t a ponzi are taxes (or any common funds), you pay into a common fund that then is used to provide services and infrastructure that anyone can use for fun and profit. Another example is a traditional savings account. The bank (actually a credit union is an even more pristine example) holds on to your money while you are not using it, and lends it to people that need it, they will give you a small interest as compensation (part of the profit of that money) but also spend some of it to buy insurance so that you will never be at risk of actually loosing that money.

ratg13 4y ago

Relevant Warren Buffet commentary on crypto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVm7Pfb0ilY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVm7Pfb0ilY

m00dy 4y ago
I'm not sure he is able to understand blockchain concepts like proof of work etc.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > not sure he is able to understand blockchain concepts like proof of work Which is irrelevant to the value of a consensus-based currency, other than as a smoke screen for naive investors and catnip to the technically minded.
- tiahura 4y ago
  You didn’t need to be a botanist to realize the market for tulip bulbs was going to crash.
  - m00dy 4y ago
    dude, everything crashed, stocks and even bonds. UK just bailed out pension funds. This proves that Bitcoin has became an asset class and it is very early.

everfree 4y ago

> There is economic value in a piece of equity in google. It doesn't entitle you to profits, it doesn't entitle you to assets (except in bankruptcy), you can't eat it, and it's only worth what other people will pay you for it. Unlike a rothko, I can't hang it in my living room. Where's the value?

thepasswordis 4y ago
Well you see at some point in the future I can hope to sell it to somebody else for more money than I paid!
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> doesn't entitle you to assets (except in bankruptcy) Of course it does. When the company is sold, you are entitled to the proceeds. M&A is the ultimate enforcer of equity value.
- everfree 4y ago
  > When the company is sold, you are entitled to the proceeds. So in other words, your share is worth what other people will pay you for it. I already said that. A whole-company sale is just an event where all shares are bought at once.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
__jem 4y ago
It absolutely does entitle you to profits, either in the form of dividends or stock buybacks.
- everfree 4y ago
  If Google decided to keep their profits on their balance sheet instead of paying dividends or doing buybacks, what would my recourse be? I can't just vote in a dividend, because founders Larry and Sergey control 51% of the voting power. Shares don't entitle you to profits at all.
  - __jem 4y ago
    Just because I can't walk into Google headquarters and demand a dividend doesn't mean that I don't still own some portion of those profits. Yes, finance is complicated, but there's no corporate board on this planet that would accept indefinite stockpiling of cash, which is why buybacks happen, including for Google!

lrvick 4y ago

There is economic value in inflation resistance, censorship resistance, and privacy. The fact most get-rich-traders do not care about these things and -also- speculate is irrelevant to the fundamental value.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> inflation resistance Bitcoin hyperinflated in the last year.
- lrvick 4y ago
  There is a fixed total amount of Bitcoin that will ever exist, and they are released the the market over time. Bitcoin is not inflationary.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > fixed total amount of Bitcoin that will ever exist It has a fixed supply. (Currently. An unknown number of miners could always increase it.) > Bitcoin is not inflationary Of course it is. One Bitcoin buys 75% fewer goods and services than it did a year ago. Taking advantage of people who mistake money supply for inflation is one of crypto’s scams.
    - andirk 4y ago
      When one says bitcoin is not inflationary, they mean that the supply does not inflate. You are accurate that bitcoin's purchasing power can wane aka deflate. In my opinion and many others it is moot because everything deflates. As far as we know, there is not a single thing in existence that is void of inflation by your usage of the term. Therefore, we move beyond that version of the definition to the practical and useful definition which is that it cannot be added to numerically. English is my first language and those sentences are crap, but I think you get what I mean.
      - JumpCrisscross 4y ago

thefaux 4y ago

Interesting analogy. It is true that much, if not most, high end art is purchased as a speculative investment, just like crypto.

rout39574 4y ago
It's possible that you misspelled "Money laundering instrument". ;)

runarberg 4y ago

You are right about the general case (not everything is a ponzi) but you’re wrong about the example. If you make money out of a piece of equity in Google, then somebody made that money but didn’t get it, either by buying the same amount of equity for more money then you, or by creating value through working at google but not getting that value paid in salary. This sounds like a ponzi with investors at the top of the pyramid and workers at the bottom. A better example of something that isn’t a ponzi are taxes (or any common funds), you pay into a common fund that then is used to provide services and infrastructure that anyone can use for fun and profit. Another example is a traditional savings account. The bank (actually a credit union is an even more pristine example) holds on to your money while you are not using it, and lends it to people that need it, they will give you a small interest as compensation (part of the profit of that money) but also spend some of it to buy insurance so that you will never be at risk of actually loosing that money.