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As usual, cultural diversity is abhorrent to the symbol-minded. A shape which has been drawn by humans around the world since prehistory is effectively banned b

by t-3 4y ago

As usual, cultural diversity is abhorrent to the symbol-minded. A shape which has been drawn by humans around the world since prehistory is effectively banned because a small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. I don't see anyone trying to ban crosses or raise a fuss about them, and Christians have historically used it as a symbol while perpetrating many horrifying acts. Nobody is trying to ban the flags of any of the other countries which engaged in slavery, genocide, and colonial oppression, and those are at least reasonably unique. Why should this ancient religious symbol be forever tainted?

hulitu 4y ago
> Why should this ancient religious symbol be forever tainted? Vae victis. This symbol has become a non symbol because the history was rewritten.
- rocknor 4y ago
  > history was rewritten Hundreds of millions of people still use it regularly in India, it's everywhere. It's pretty innocuous. Unless you stop them from doing so somehow, history is not rewritten. Attempts to colonize ancient symbols will not succeed.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
HebericNewt 4y ago
beezlewax 4y ago
...the Nazis were hardly a "small group of people".
- wongarsu 4y ago
  1939 Germany had about 80 million inhabitants. By far not all Germans were Nazis, but then not all Nazis were Germans, so let's just use that as a first approximation. At the same time, India had about 320 million inhabitants, or four times as many. Maybe calling Nazis a small group is a bit far, but they were definitely a minority of swastika users even at the time.
- ram4jesus 4y ago
  % of total population in 1930s Germany that were ardent Nazis vs. the rest of the world’s population shows that it was a small group of people. Three hundred years from now, no one will care about said symbols anyhow. When’s the last time we see people be superstitious or negative towards a worse person like Ghengis Khan? He’s part of popular culture; projecting into the future, as depressing as it sounds, so will Hitler be.
tdeck 4y ago
Your examples are extremely powerful religions and countries, rhat's why any movement to curtail their symbols is a non-starter. If the Nazis had won, it would be the same with their symbols.
beachy 4y ago
> small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. Try again. A genocidal regime that conquered western europe by force, almost succeeded in overthrowing world democracy and caused the deaths of tens of millions.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    probably in school? At the height of its expansion The Nazi regime (and allies) occupied not just most of Western Europe, but most of Europe period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe#/media/File:Europe_under_Nazi_domination.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe#/media/...
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      Occupied is not the same as conquered, and they had a weak grasp of those places, with life going on as normal in much of France. Even if they had conquered those places, how is does this mean the world was on the brink of a collapse of democracy? EDIT: why the downvotes?
      - Barrin92 4y ago
        [flagged]
        bowsamic 4y ago
        Of course that happened in some places but in much of France the occupation was extremely light handed to the point where peoples lives were barely affected. It wasn’t total domination. You are making stuff up. There is more to France than the north
        spoils19 4y ago
moshegramovsky 4y ago
> a small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. It sounds like you might not understand the vast scale of the Holocaust, and that it affected every Jewish person in Europe. It sounds like you might not realize what also happened to the Polish Christians (and other Slavic peoples) under the Germans - which was another attempted genocide by itself. We spent 1000 years in Poland, and our entire culture was totally destroyed in just a few years. 90% of the Jewish people in Europe were murdered. In many places, no Jews remain at all. https://vanishedworld.blog/exhibition/ https://vanishedworld.blog/exhibition/
- t-3 4y ago
  I didn't say they only did a small amount of bad things, I said "a bunch of". What exactly are you disputing here?
- Khaine 4y ago
  I think the point was that the number of nazis is small compared to all of the people in the world from the beginning of time until who have used the symbol. That doesn't take away from the horrors that the nazi's did.
tom_ 4y ago
Who says it's forever tainted? World War II was less than 100 years ago, and it was a fairly major event. Still fresh in historical terms.
lamontcg 4y ago
> A shape which has been drawn by humans around the world since prehistory is effectively banned because a small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. Yep. Trying to minimize WWII and the holocaust is not a good point to start an argument from. It would also help if there weren't a resurgence of them to deal with today. We have ongoing problems with that symbology. Pretty much cemented my opinion there.
- t-3 4y ago
  How exactly was I minimizing anything? I even mentioned "slavery, genocide, and colonial oppression", so what did I miss? These bullshit insinuations of antisemitism are garbage, show me what I said that was wrong, show me where I trivialized anything, don't just accuse me of thoughtcrime based on your own kneejerk assumptions.
  - lamontcg 4y ago
    I didn't accuse you of antisemitism, interesting that you're defending yourself. I just pointed out that Nazi ideology and symbology are a current political concern in the United States today.
    - t-3 4y ago
      "Insinuation" != accusation. It means stuff like "interesting that you're defending yourself." You did accuse me of minimizing the Holocaust, and still have not responded about what exactly you found to be objectionable. That in itself is basically an accusation of antisemitism.

by t-3 4y ago

hulitu 4y ago

> Why should this ancient religious symbol be forever tainted? Vae victis. This symbol has become a non symbol because the history was rewritten.

rocknor 4y ago
> history was rewritten Hundreds of millions of people still use it regularly in India, it's everywhere. It's pretty innocuous. Unless you stop them from doing so somehow, history is not rewritten. Attempts to colonize ancient symbols will not succeed.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

HebericNewt 4y ago

beezlewax 4y ago

...the Nazis were hardly a "small group of people".

wongarsu 4y ago
1939 Germany had about 80 million inhabitants. By far not all Germans were Nazis, but then not all Nazis were Germans, so let's just use that as a first approximation. At the same time, India had about 320 million inhabitants, or four times as many. Maybe calling Nazis a small group is a bit far, but they were definitely a minority of swastika users even at the time.
ram4jesus 4y ago
% of total population in 1930s Germany that were ardent Nazis vs. the rest of the world’s population shows that it was a small group of people. Three hundred years from now, no one will care about said symbols anyhow. When’s the last time we see people be superstitious or negative towards a worse person like Ghengis Khan? He’s part of popular culture; projecting into the future, as depressing as it sounds, so will Hitler be.

tdeck 4y ago

Your examples are extremely powerful religions and countries, rhat's why any movement to curtail their symbols is a non-starter. If the Nazis had won, it would be the same with their symbols.

beachy 4y ago

> small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. Try again. A genocidal regime that conquered western europe by force, almost succeeded in overthrowing world democracy and caused the deaths of tens of millions.

bowsamic 4y ago
[flagged]
- Barrin92 4y ago
  probably in school? At the height of its expansion The Nazi regime (and allies) occupied not just most of Western Europe, but most of Europe period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe#/media/File:Europe_under_Nazi_domination.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German-occupied_Europe#/media/...
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Occupied is not the same as conquered, and they had a weak grasp of those places, with life going on as normal in much of France. Even if they had conquered those places, how is does this mean the world was on the brink of a collapse of democracy? EDIT: why the downvotes?
    - Barrin92 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        Of course that happened in some places but in much of France the occupation was extremely light handed to the point where peoples lives were barely affected. It wasn’t total domination. You are making stuff up. There is more to France than the north
      - spoils19 4y ago

moshegramovsky 4y ago

> a small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. It sounds like you might not understand the vast scale of the Holocaust, and that it affected every Jewish person in Europe. It sounds like you might not realize what also happened to the Polish Christians (and other Slavic peoples) under the Germans - which was another attempted genocide by itself. We spent 1000 years in Poland, and our entire culture was totally destroyed in just a few years. 90% of the Jewish people in Europe were murdered. In many places, no Jews remain at all. https://vanishedworld.blog/exhibition/ https://vanishedworld.blog/exhibition/

t-3 4y ago
I didn't say they only did a small amount of bad things, I said "a bunch of". What exactly are you disputing here?
Khaine 4y ago
I think the point was that the number of nazis is small compared to all of the people in the world from the beginning of time until who have used the symbol. That doesn't take away from the horrors that the nazi's did.

tom_ 4y ago

Who says it's forever tainted? World War II was less than 100 years ago, and it was a fairly major event. Still fresh in historical terms.

lamontcg 4y ago

> A shape which has been drawn by humans around the world since prehistory is effectively banned because a small group of people decided to use it while they did a bunch of nasty stuff. Yep. Trying to minimize WWII and the holocaust is not a good point to start an argument from. It would also help if there weren't a resurgence of them to deal with today. We have ongoing problems with that symbology. Pretty much cemented my opinion there.

t-3 4y ago
How exactly was I minimizing anything? I even mentioned "slavery, genocide, and colonial oppression", so what did I miss? These bullshit insinuations of antisemitism are garbage, show me what I said that was wrong, show me where I trivialized anything, don't just accuse me of thoughtcrime based on your own kneejerk assumptions.
- lamontcg 4y ago
  I didn't accuse you of antisemitism, interesting that you're defending yourself. I just pointed out that Nazi ideology and symbology are a current political concern in the United States today.
  - t-3 4y ago
    "Insinuation" != accusation. It means stuff like "interesting that you're defending yourself." You did accuse me of minimizing the Holocaust, and still have not responded about what exactly you found to be objectionable. That in itself is basically an accusation of antisemitism.