7 ms·

Wait, how long are people expected to be on 600-1100 kcal/day? Just for a little worse than a coin flip? That sounds really miserable. Isn't that basically a c

Wait, how long are people expected to be on 600-1100 kcal/day? Just for a little worse than a coin flip? That sounds really miserable. Isn't that basically a crash diet and no one stfus about not doing those because they can mess you up long term? I'm really confused how T2D are special such that crash dieting doesn't mess them up further and put them further in a hole. They're already messed up because of the T2D, aren't they?

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago
VLCDs are very safe, much safer than say all the co-morbidities of obesity. The important thing is to chose the right things to eat for those few calories. It also assumes a sedantary office lifestyle with only minimal exercise. If you work out or run you will need more. With these caveats it is safe and effective and works for obesity, type-2 diabetes and some metabolism problems. It really is that simple. The first law of thermodynamics doesn't go away so simply. Combine that with the evolutionary preassure that favors those who can save and expend energy and this all makes perfect sense. For example, increased insulin sensitivity on a low calorie diet makes sense evolutionarily. The only drawback is that muscle will be consumed as well. The amount varries by person, diet and exercise but it is minimal with a high protien diet. So say eating 500 kcal of chicken brest everyday and the rest of the calories spilt between carbs and lipids would be a good way to do this diet. "Crash diets" do work as long as you do it for a few months. People generaly do a few days and then start binging >200 TDEE. Obviously that won't work: >The active stage is characterized by a very low-calorie diet (600–800 kcal/day), low in carbohydrates (< 50 g daily from vegetables) and lipids (only 10 g of olive oil per day). The amount of high-biological-value proteins ranged between 0.8 and 1.2 g per each Kg of ideal body weight in order to preserve lean mass and to meet the minimal daily body requirements. This stage is further divided in 3 ketogenic phases: in phase 1, the patients eat high-biological-value protein preparations five times a day, along with vegetables with low glycemic index. In phase 2, one of the protein servings is replaced by natural proteins such as meat/egg/fish either at lunch or at dinner. In the phase 3, a second serve of the natural protein low in fat replaced the second serve of biological protein preparation. Being a very low caloric nutritional pattern, it is recommended to supplement patients with micronutrients (vitamins, such as complex B vitamins, vitamin C and E, minerals, including potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium; and omega-3 fatty acids) according to international recommendations. This active stage is kept until the patient loses most of weight loss target, about 80%. Therefore, the ketogenic phases are variable in time depending on the individual and the weight loss target. The active stage generally lasts between 8 and 12 weeks in total.[0] [0]The management of very low-calorie ketogenic diet in obesity outpatient clinic: a practical guide (2019) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6820992/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6820992/
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  They sound miserable, though, is what I'm saying. How are VLCD people expected to do any sort of fitness or do any sort of mentally taxing labor if they're hungry and running on little nutrition basically all of the time for months? That seems totally unreasonable unless we send obese people to some kind of clinic like we do for addicts, and then how do they adapt back into the real world? Are there any actual studies of people doing this long-term and how this affects their bodies? I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? EDIT: Wait, is my understanding is that you have to starve for up to 4 months for a worse-than-coinflip chance at diabetes? Do we know if it stays off for 5 years? 10 years? Do you have to coinflip again? What happens if it doesn't work?
  - uberduper 4y ago
    > I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? It is not true.
    - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
      > It is not true. Many people experience that and scientists/doctors agree. In addition there is a risk of higher mortality. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.00002.2021 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.000... "Many men and women in the United States diet to lose BW; however, most regain the weight they lost after the diet ends (73). Dr. Kelly D. Brownell coined the term “yo-yo dieting” to reflect BW fluctuations during repeated cycles of diet-induced weight loss and BW gain after the diet is terminated (74). Approximately 20–55% of women and 18–34% of men report weight cycling (75–77). What remains unclear is the impact of weight cycling on cardiovascular health. Several large studies, including the Honolulu Heart Program (78), the Framingham Heart Study (79), and >9,500 participants in a Treating to New Targets trial (80), have shown a strong correlation between BW fluctuation and rate of cardiovascular events that are independent of traditional cardiovascular risk factors. A recent meta-analysis of >440,000 participants from 23 studies showed that BW cycling was associated with a 1.4-fold higher relative risk of mortality due to all causes and to cardiovascular disease. The meta-analysis also revealed that BW cycling was associated with 1.4-fold and 1.5-fold higher relative risk of hypertension and CVD morbidity, respectively"

Vt71fcAqt7 4y ago

VLCDs are very safe, much safer than say all the co-morbidities of obesity. The important thing is to chose the right things to eat for those few calories. It also assumes a sedantary office lifestyle with only minimal exercise. If you work out or run you will need more. With these caveats it is safe and effective and works for obesity, type-2 diabetes and some metabolism problems. It really is that simple. The first law of thermodynamics doesn't go away so simply. Combine that with the evolutionary preassure that favors those who can save and expend energy and this all makes perfect sense. For example, increased insulin sensitivity on a low calorie diet makes sense evolutionarily. The only drawback is that muscle will be consumed as well. The amount varries by person, diet and exercise but it is minimal with a high protien diet. So say eating 500 kcal of chicken brest everyday and the rest of the calories spilt between carbs and lipids would be a good way to do this diet. "Crash diets" do work as long as you do it for a few months. People generaly do a few days and then start binging >200 TDEE. Obviously that won't work: >The active stage is characterized by a very low-calorie diet (600–800 kcal/day), low in carbohydrates (< 50 g daily from vegetables) and lipids (only 10 g of olive oil per day). The amount of high-biological-value proteins ranged between 0.8 and 1.2 g per each Kg of ideal body weight in order to preserve lean mass and to meet the minimal daily body requirements. This stage is further divided in 3 ketogenic phases: in phase 1, the patients eat high-biological-value protein preparations five times a day, along with vegetables with low glycemic index. In phase 2, one of the protein servings is replaced by natural proteins such as meat/egg/fish either at lunch or at dinner. In the phase 3, a second serve of the natural protein low in fat replaced the second serve of biological protein preparation. Being a very low caloric nutritional pattern, it is recommended to supplement patients with micronutrients (vitamins, such as complex B vitamins, vitamin C and E, minerals, including potassium, sodium, magnesium, calcium; and omega-3 fatty acids) according to international recommendations. This active stage is kept until the patient loses most of weight loss target, about 80%. Therefore, the ketogenic phases are variable in time depending on the individual and the weight loss target. The active stage generally lasts between 8 and 12 weeks in total.[0] [0]The management of very low-calorie ketogenic diet in obesity outpatient clinic: a practical guide (2019) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6820992/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6820992/

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
They sound miserable, though, is what I'm saying. How are VLCD people expected to do any sort of fitness or do any sort of mentally taxing labor if they're hungry and running on little nutrition basically all of the time for months? That seems totally unreasonable unless we send obese people to some kind of clinic like we do for addicts, and then how do they adapt back into the real world? Are there any actual studies of people doing this long-term and how this affects their bodies? I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? EDIT: Wait, is my understanding is that you have to starve for up to 4 months for a worse-than-coinflip chance at diabetes? Do we know if it stays off for 5 years? 10 years? Do you have to coinflip again? What happens if it doesn't work?
- uberduper 4y ago
  > I was always told crash diets fuck you up for years. How can this be true and also people are apparently starving for months and that's totally fine? It is not true.
  - JPLeRouzic 4y ago
    > It is not true. Many people experience that and scientists/doctors agree. In addition there is a risk of higher mortality. https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.00002.2021 https://journals.physiology.org/doi/full/10.1152/physiol.000... "Many men and women in the United States diet to lose BW; however, most regain the weight they lost after the diet ends (73). Dr. Kelly D. Brownell coined the term “yo-yo dieting” to reflect BW fluctuations during repeated cycles of diet-induced weight loss and BW gain after the diet is terminated (74). Approximately 20–55% of women and 18–34% of men report weight cycling (75–77). What remains unclear is the impact of weight cycling on cardiovascular health. Several large studies, including the Honolulu Heart Program (78), the Framingham Heart Study (79), and >9,500 participants in a Treating to New Targets trial (80), have shown a strong correlation between BW fluctuation and rate of cardiovascular events that are independent of traditional cardiovascular risk factors. A recent meta-analysis of >440,000 participants from 23 studies showed that BW cycling was associated with a 1.4-fold higher relative risk of mortality due to all causes and to cardiovascular disease. The meta-analysis also revealed that BW cycling was associated with 1.4-fold and 1.5-fold higher relative risk of hypertension and CVD morbidity, respectively"