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Going to write this anonymously as someone who has went through a serious narcissistic collapse 5 months ago. All I can say is that the collapse is the only, an

by whynpd 4y ago

Going to write this anonymously as someone who has went through a serious narcissistic collapse 5 months ago. All I can say is that the collapse is the only, and rare opportunity for a narcissistic to begin real change. It’s like reaching the bottom, same as when alcoholic ruins his life and only then begins to change. I felt like I reached my own bottom and there was nowhere to hide anymore. There are lower bottoms to reach but that was enough for me. I was going to therapy before the collapse but after that went even deeper. If a narcissist has enough self-awareness and a willingness to change, as painful as it is, it can be a gift in disguise. I’ll also add that narcissism is a spectrum and beyond a certain point, a full-on NPD is just incapable of change.

enkid 4y ago
Wow, thanks for sharing that.
throw6286185 4y ago
Also posting anonymously, for obvious reasons. They say narcissists can't change because either they're unaware of their plight or they "embrace" it. Yet I have many narcissistic personality traits, I'm aware of it, and I hate it. I try to correct myself but it's not working well. Some examples. The minute someone "crosses" me (or I feel they have, even if they haven't) I completely remove myself from the relationship. That doesn't work too well for jobs, romance, or friendship. I can become extremely aggressive when someone who I feel should be paying attention to me, doesn't (typically, a bored bank teller). I have strong road rage. I never make myself vulnerable, never say what I really think or how I really feel. In general I consider that I deserve everything, and should be on top of the world. Since I'm a nobody, the space between what is and what should be is incredibly hard to bear. I hate everyone but the person I hate the most is me. It's easy to identify what needs to change, but very difficult to act upon a specific behavior in the heat of the action.
- tartoran 4y ago
  At least you have an insight and want to fix it, go seek therapy for otherwise you’ll have a miserable existence.
- whynpd 4y ago
  You’re on a great path already, buddy. Even if you don’t know yet how to escape your inner hell. I used to have a lot of anger as well, and sometimes still do, but also felt guilty about it later on, and knew it was unjustified. It’s all about the unresolved deeper issues. I’d try to find a therapist experienced with NPD that you can also trust completely, and trust the process.
  - deepmauka 4y ago
    Unresolved issues… The EMDR technique specifically has helped me here where as years of talk therapy helped me self awareness but didn’t help change the my initial reaction to triggering events.
- analyst74 4y ago
  Thanks for sharing some examples! Funnily I'm trying to develop some of the traits and encourage my more humble friends to do the same. For example, I find that not believing I deserve anything actually led to people treating me badly in the past. And developing a healthy dose of "I deserve this" mentality has improved my day-to-day interactions and even relationships. Another thing I learnt much later in life was that wanting success is the first step of... success, and there is nothing wrong with grand dreams. Maybe I need a narcissist friend and exchange notes.
  - prirun 4y ago
    > Maybe I need a narcissist friend and exchange notes I know you're making a joke, but be careful: you are exactly the kind of person a narcissist will latch onto and take advantage of. > not believing I deserve anything actually led to people treating me badly in the past People who treat others badly will seek out people with self-esteem issues, because they will come back for abuse again and again. Whereas a person with high self-esteem will not put up with abuse. Good luck with your self-esteem boost!
    - whatevertrevor 4y ago
      > People who treat others badly will seek out people with self-esteem issues, because they will come back for abuse again and again. Whereas a person with high self-esteem will not put up with abuse. Not just that, that kind of relationship presents itself (at least on the surface) as the comfort zone of both parties. The narcissistic end gets the validation and self-esteem boost. And the person with more self-doubt hears what they already believe in (even if they're trying to change it). That's why it can be a dangerous path because a narcissist (pretty much by definition) is not there to help you make progress, they're there to reinforce their own ego.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
  Good luck to you both. Life is hard especially when we aren’t what we thought we were and reality was different than we thought. Shifting frame and changing what life as we experience it from then on is scary. When it strikes to the heart of our self image and ego it’s beyond scary, it’s terrifying. Congratulations. I found a way to build self awareness is vipassana meditation. The entire focus of the practice is learning how to be aware of your thinking mind without being reactive to its direction and recognizing your senate mind as an equal, but both subservient to your base awareness which is the actual you. You might find the NPD part of yourself lives in the thinking / striving mind and by holding it in awareness it loses its power. This has worked for me.
- trenchgun 4y ago
  > I never make myself vulnerable, never say what I really think or how I really feel. Isnt this comment of yours exactly this? Being vulnerable, saying ehat you thing, how you feel?
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Anonymously. I suspect that matters. But I think you're right, that even doing it anonymously is something. It's a step.
    - throw6286185 4y ago
      Yes, doing it anonymously makes a big difference.
  - coldtea 4y ago
    "Never" here is not meant by the parent as an absolute law of nature. If he is like that 99% of the time, but that one time he did confess it and been vulnerable to a friend, it still qualifies. Besides, this is admission is a meta-case (which is also done anonymously through a throwaway account)".
chimeracoder 4y ago
> I was going to therapy before the collapse but after that went even deeper. A big problem is that most therapists have no experience with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as it's quite rare, but at the same time, conventional talk therapy actually exacerbates the disorder. So unless a person seeks out treatment for NPD specifically, they're unlikely to get better and in fact will likely get more stuck. And it's a catch-22, because nobody will seek out an expert for a diagnosis they haven't received.
- zwkrt 4y ago
  This is exactly what happened to me. I have more borderline traits than straight up narcissism, but they share in common that incredibly self-centered personality core and need for external validation. Kind of like two ways of expressing the same gene. I was treated for a long time like I had anxiety and depression in therapy. But therapy just allowed me to go on and on about my problems and got a lot of tips and tricks about my mood, but they were all just papering over the core issue which is that I trap myself in situations I don’t like and then feel like I can’t leave because then I’d be all alone. Through a fluke I ended up changing therapists to someone who got their thesis studying narcissism. She was the first person pretty much in my whole life who would cut through my b.s. and tactfully push back. Suggesting there might be more colors to situations than my distorted vision would let me see. Now when I see someone else with unchecked narcissism it really bothers me because I know what kind of hell they must experience internally. It still hurts, but I’d like to think I’m starting to be more self aware.
- whynpd 4y ago
  Exactly this. I now think that my first therapist had experience with NPD and was treating it without me realizing that. But then I felt the progress was too slow so changed the therapist to someone who I now think did more damage than good. During this time is also when I had my collapse. Due to fortunate circumstances I’m now finally going to a therapist who is extremely experienced with NPD and does not let me fool her or myself. So to your point, yes it’s very tricky, and @zwkrt comment above is very accurate.
thenerdhead 4y ago
Thanks for being vulnerable. These are the classic stories of Ebenezer Scrooge, Captain Ahab, Frankenstein, and Jay Gatsby to name a few who either change their ways for good or die while refusing to after a collapse.
tetrisfan 4y ago

by whynpd 4y ago

enkid 4y ago

Wow, thanks for sharing that.

throw6286185 4y ago

Also posting anonymously, for obvious reasons. They say narcissists can't change because either they're unaware of their plight or they "embrace" it. Yet I have many narcissistic personality traits, I'm aware of it, and I hate it. I try to correct myself but it's not working well. Some examples. The minute someone "crosses" me (or I feel they have, even if they haven't) I completely remove myself from the relationship. That doesn't work too well for jobs, romance, or friendship. I can become extremely aggressive when someone who I feel should be paying attention to me, doesn't (typically, a bored bank teller). I have strong road rage. I never make myself vulnerable, never say what I really think or how I really feel. In general I consider that I deserve everything, and should be on top of the world. Since I'm a nobody, the space between what is and what should be is incredibly hard to bear. I hate everyone but the person I hate the most is me. It's easy to identify what needs to change, but very difficult to act upon a specific behavior in the heat of the action.

tartoran 4y ago
At least you have an insight and want to fix it, go seek therapy for otherwise you’ll have a miserable existence.
whynpd 4y ago
You’re on a great path already, buddy. Even if you don’t know yet how to escape your inner hell. I used to have a lot of anger as well, and sometimes still do, but also felt guilty about it later on, and knew it was unjustified. It’s all about the unresolved deeper issues. I’d try to find a therapist experienced with NPD that you can also trust completely, and trust the process.
- deepmauka 4y ago
  Unresolved issues… The EMDR technique specifically has helped me here where as years of talk therapy helped me self awareness but didn’t help change the my initial reaction to triggering events.
analyst74 4y ago
Thanks for sharing some examples! Funnily I'm trying to develop some of the traits and encourage my more humble friends to do the same. For example, I find that not believing I deserve anything actually led to people treating me badly in the past. And developing a healthy dose of "I deserve this" mentality has improved my day-to-day interactions and even relationships. Another thing I learnt much later in life was that wanting success is the first step of... success, and there is nothing wrong with grand dreams. Maybe I need a narcissist friend and exchange notes.
- prirun 4y ago
  > Maybe I need a narcissist friend and exchange notes I know you're making a joke, but be careful: you are exactly the kind of person a narcissist will latch onto and take advantage of. > not believing I deserve anything actually led to people treating me badly in the past People who treat others badly will seek out people with self-esteem issues, because they will come back for abuse again and again. Whereas a person with high self-esteem will not put up with abuse. Good luck with your self-esteem boost!
  - whatevertrevor 4y ago
    > People who treat others badly will seek out people with self-esteem issues, because they will come back for abuse again and again. Whereas a person with high self-esteem will not put up with abuse. Not just that, that kind of relationship presents itself (at least on the surface) as the comfort zone of both parties. The narcissistic end gets the validation and self-esteem boost. And the person with more self-doubt hears what they already believe in (even if they're trying to change it). That's why it can be a dangerous path because a narcissist (pretty much by definition) is not there to help you make progress, they're there to reinforce their own ego.
fnordpiglet 4y ago
Good luck to you both. Life is hard especially when we aren’t what we thought we were and reality was different than we thought. Shifting frame and changing what life as we experience it from then on is scary. When it strikes to the heart of our self image and ego it’s beyond scary, it’s terrifying. Congratulations. I found a way to build self awareness is vipassana meditation. The entire focus of the practice is learning how to be aware of your thinking mind without being reactive to its direction and recognizing your senate mind as an equal, but both subservient to your base awareness which is the actual you. You might find the NPD part of yourself lives in the thinking / striving mind and by holding it in awareness it loses its power. This has worked for me.
trenchgun 4y ago
> I never make myself vulnerable, never say what I really think or how I really feel. Isnt this comment of yours exactly this? Being vulnerable, saying ehat you thing, how you feel?
- AnimalMuppet 4y ago
  Anonymously. I suspect that matters. But I think you're right, that even doing it anonymously is something. It's a step.
  - throw6286185 4y ago
    Yes, doing it anonymously makes a big difference.
- coldtea 4y ago
  "Never" here is not meant by the parent as an absolute law of nature. If he is like that 99% of the time, but that one time he did confess it and been vulnerable to a friend, it still qualifies. Besides, this is admission is a meta-case (which is also done anonymously through a throwaway account)".

chimeracoder 4y ago

> I was going to therapy before the collapse but after that went even deeper. A big problem is that most therapists have no experience with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, as it's quite rare, but at the same time, conventional talk therapy actually exacerbates the disorder. So unless a person seeks out treatment for NPD specifically, they're unlikely to get better and in fact will likely get more stuck. And it's a catch-22, because nobody will seek out an expert for a diagnosis they haven't received.

zwkrt 4y ago
This is exactly what happened to me. I have more borderline traits than straight up narcissism, but they share in common that incredibly self-centered personality core and need for external validation. Kind of like two ways of expressing the same gene. I was treated for a long time like I had anxiety and depression in therapy. But therapy just allowed me to go on and on about my problems and got a lot of tips and tricks about my mood, but they were all just papering over the core issue which is that I trap myself in situations I don’t like and then feel like I can’t leave because then I’d be all alone. Through a fluke I ended up changing therapists to someone who got their thesis studying narcissism. She was the first person pretty much in my whole life who would cut through my b.s. and tactfully push back. Suggesting there might be more colors to situations than my distorted vision would let me see. Now when I see someone else with unchecked narcissism it really bothers me because I know what kind of hell they must experience internally. It still hurts, but I’d like to think I’m starting to be more self aware.
whynpd 4y ago
Exactly this. I now think that my first therapist had experience with NPD and was treating it without me realizing that. But then I felt the progress was too slow so changed the therapist to someone who I now think did more damage than good. During this time is also when I had my collapse. Due to fortunate circumstances I’m now finally going to a therapist who is extremely experienced with NPD and does not let me fool her or myself. So to your point, yes it’s very tricky, and @zwkrt comment above is very accurate.

thenerdhead 4y ago

Thanks for being vulnerable. These are the classic stories of Ebenezer Scrooge, Captain Ahab, Frankenstein, and Jay Gatsby to name a few who either change their ways for good or die while refusing to after a collapse.

tetrisfan 4y ago