6 ms·

I want to stop writing software, build a low impact house and become a modern day peasant. No, really, I have given this years of thought. Unfortunately, this i

by Paul_S 4y ago

I want to stop writing software, build a low impact house and become a modern day peasant. No, really, I have given this years of thought. Unfortunately, this is impossible in England (legally), unless you have 1M pounds in cash. Please share if you have some useful resources on how to do it, although I'd rather not buy land in Portugal, Spain or other country with friendlier laws - this is common advice.

paulcole 4y ago
I’m assuming you’ve already thrown away your non-work computer, don’t watch television, and don’t own/use a smart phone? And you’re only eating meat you hunt/fish/raise yourself?
- Paul_S 4y ago
  Why would I do any of that? I'd like to emphasize the word "modern" in my post. I don't want to live apart from society or modern technology. I embrace modern technology (I guess to a point, don't own anything smart or use clouds). I'm a woodworker and only use hand tools where they are genuinely better, otherwise it's machines all the way. I don't want to cosplay as a British Amish.
  - paulcole 4y ago
    You don’t need $1,000,000 to live like a peasant. My cousin’s broke and he manages OK. It sounds more like you want to live like a rich person lol.
    - Paul_S 4y ago
      The crucial detail is "in England". I could do this in America no problem, I know. I'm surprised more Americans don't take advantage of this freedom they have.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
        The freedom to make their life more difficult? I live on a farm in the Midwest; there's a reason most people prefer life in the city/suburbs: it's simply much easier.
    - jahlove 4y ago
      You don't need a million dollars to do nothin', man. Take a look at my cousin. He's broke, don't do shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-bp_A61MI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-bp_A61MI
- lm28469 4y ago
  Yep, with the cattle I raise on my 2sqm balcony, and I exclusively eat veggies from my 20cm kitchen basil plant You can't live off grid with a day job/living in the city, you can't farm until you have land, &c.
implements 4y ago
Have you heard of Tipi Valley? (in Wales) https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/ https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/ Long established, I saw a piece about it on the television and it looked idyllic - at least outside of winter (cold, wet and muddy!). Might be a good community to contact for help about your dream.
- Paul_S 4y ago
  Yes, I have but I haven't visited them yet. I find that those communities have too much political and ethical baggage and sacrifice pragmatic solutions because of that. There's some communities where you're not allowed a ICE car and I really don't like that.
  - implements 4y ago
    I know what you mean. The extreme form is something like the Amish lifestyle, which appeals to me in lots of ways bar the entirety of the religious component. I’d love a simple hut on a Portuguese hillside, with a loose confederation of nearby people helping each other out when convenient - sharing tools, ideas, contacts … whatever. No politics, no enforced veganism - just a simple life.
    - Paul_S 4y ago
      I keep thinking those communities must exist but I never heard of any. Maybe they keep it very quiet, which I could understand.
    - W0lfEagle 4y ago
      I also want this. We're renting in UK countryside with big enough garden to grow vegetables and have a happy toddler running around but we're a very long way off being able to buy land and build what we want here. It feels like there must be so many of us wanting to live this life but barred from it by our petty planning laws. I'd love to find a loose but inclusive international community of people living life away from the bs without having to join a cult.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
Canal boats. Apparently about a 50k UKP investment for the basic shell, then as much as you want/have on the build. Single-digit thousands per year for a mooring.
- Paul_S 4y ago
  We considered it for a couple of minutes but we want some land for crops and animals both for their entertainment value and keeping costs down (this is something we already do in our garden and allotment).
DennisP 4y ago
What are the laws that make this especially difficult in England?
- Paul_S 4y ago
  Zoning. There are exceptions for rich people (no joke, Paragraph 79) and commercial farmers (arduous 3+ year journey). Everyone else is limited to existing tiny plots (even in villages) which cost at minimum 200K. Any detached house with more than quarter of an acre land will cost you a million. Contrast that with many European countries where for a small fee you can convert some agricultural land and build a house yourself.
  - throwayyy479087 4y ago
    This is the process of suburban sprawl, fyi. No biggie if a few people do it, but once everyone does you get Phoenix or Dallas
CalRobert 4y ago
Wales might be an option considering their One Planet Development rules - http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/ - or for more detail http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/One-Planet-Development-TAN6.pdf http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/0... While planning rules make it difficult to make new-builds in the countryside, you might look at fixer-uppers in rural Ireland. If you're a UK citizen you still have the right to live in Ireland. In many cases councils are eager to have people fixing up vacant houses, and grants are available. This is how I came to have thatched cottage on 3.5 acres in Co. Offaly. And I had ~40,000 euro, not 1 million pounds! I made a site to find properties like this, go to gaffologist.com/ and choose "advanced" if you want to select for acreage (warning - it's buggy!) https://www.youtube.com/@MossyBottom https://www.youtube.com/@MossyBottom is worth watching on this topic as well; he lives off-grid in rural Ireland and is fixing up an old cottage.
- Paul_S 4y ago
  Yes, I know Wales has some low impact development legislation but look at the history of many of those projects, years of court cases and several tens of thousands of pounds in fees. The successful ones (that I know of) are the ones that incorporated themselves or garnered enough media attention to stop the demolition. I know it sounds lazy but I don't want to start a movement, just build a house. I don't want to cut wheat with a scythe and live in a tipi (can't remember which one but it was one in England that did get permission). Thanks for the website, I'm amazed how cheap plots are in Ireland. It does look like Ireland has what I'm looking for: reasonably priced house/plot with a couple of acres of land. Those villages even have most of the grid! But see, that's the problem - all good advice boils down to "move out of England".
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    "move out of England" seems like a good start regardless! Ireland would offer a familiar environment at least.
tcmb 4y ago
Maybe you can find a legal loophole. Something in British law granting freedom of choice of profession and livelihood, and the sue your way into peasanthood and land ownership. (Half joking)
- Paul_S 4y ago
  My current plan is legal loopholes which I am researching. I want to know the odds I'm against. There are plenty of loopholes if you just Google it but most of them are absolute nonsense and clickbait. There's one guy I know of who managed it through wood management building gray area. Looks most promising as it doesn't require 12 acres of land.
W0lfEagle 4y ago
I want the same for my family. We rent in England and can just about afford a big (not US big) country house with a garden and poly tunnel to grow our food. Trouble is, I spend 40+ hours a week writing code to make the money to pay the rent and bills etc and don't have much time left to live the life we're trying to build. We'll never afford the £1m mortgage to own the kind of house we want. My wife recently found the ecological land coop. You buy/rent your parcel of farmland in a small group of people doing the same thing. Rights to live and work on the land with some shared resources. https://ecologicalland.coop/ https://ecologicalland.coop/
- Paul_S 4y ago
  There's a couple of those companies doing this, I urge you to read carefully what they provide you and what the restrictions are. You might find that the benefits they provide are nothing you can't do yourself cheaper and the restrictions mean you are practically a tenant.
Paul_S 4y ago
If you live in the UK and have similar goals I created a telegram group to share research on how to move to the countryside without a million pounds: t.me/uk_rural_life

by Paul_S 4y ago

paulcole 4y ago

I’m assuming you’ve already thrown away your non-work computer, don’t watch television, and don’t own/use a smart phone? And you’re only eating meat you hunt/fish/raise yourself?

Paul_S 4y ago
Why would I do any of that? I'd like to emphasize the word "modern" in my post. I don't want to live apart from society or modern technology. I embrace modern technology (I guess to a point, don't own anything smart or use clouds). I'm a woodworker and only use hand tools where they are genuinely better, otherwise it's machines all the way. I don't want to cosplay as a British Amish.
- paulcole 4y ago
  You don’t need $1,000,000 to live like a peasant. My cousin’s broke and he manages OK. It sounds more like you want to live like a rich person lol.
  - Paul_S 4y ago
    The crucial detail is "in England". I could do this in America no problem, I know. I'm surprised more Americans don't take advantage of this freedom they have.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      The freedom to make their life more difficult? I live on a farm in the Midwest; there's a reason most people prefer life in the city/suburbs: it's simply much easier.
  - jahlove 4y ago
    You don't need a million dollars to do nothin', man. Take a look at my cousin. He's broke, don't do shit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-bp_A61MI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQ-bp_A61MI
lm28469 4y ago
Yep, with the cattle I raise on my 2sqm balcony, and I exclusively eat veggies from my 20cm kitchen basil plant You can't live off grid with a day job/living in the city, you can't farm until you have land, &c.

implements 4y ago

Have you heard of Tipi Valley? (in Wales) https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/ https://diggersanddreamers.org.uk/community/tipi-valley/ Long established, I saw a piece about it on the television and it looked idyllic - at least outside of winter (cold, wet and muddy!). Might be a good community to contact for help about your dream.

Paul_S 4y ago
Yes, I have but I haven't visited them yet. I find that those communities have too much political and ethical baggage and sacrifice pragmatic solutions because of that. There's some communities where you're not allowed a ICE car and I really don't like that.
- implements 4y ago
  I know what you mean. The extreme form is something like the Amish lifestyle, which appeals to me in lots of ways bar the entirety of the religious component. I’d love a simple hut on a Portuguese hillside, with a loose confederation of nearby people helping each other out when convenient - sharing tools, ideas, contacts … whatever. No politics, no enforced veganism - just a simple life.
  - Paul_S 4y ago
    I keep thinking those communities must exist but I never heard of any. Maybe they keep it very quiet, which I could understand.
  - W0lfEagle 4y ago
    I also want this. We're renting in UK countryside with big enough garden to grow vegetables and have a happy toddler running around but we're a very long way off being able to buy land and build what we want here. It feels like there must be so many of us wanting to live this life but barred from it by our petty planning laws. I'd love to find a loose but inclusive international community of people living life away from the bs without having to join a cult.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

Canal boats. Apparently about a 50k UKP investment for the basic shell, then as much as you want/have on the build. Single-digit thousands per year for a mooring.

Paul_S 4y ago
We considered it for a couple of minutes but we want some land for crops and animals both for their entertainment value and keeping costs down (this is something we already do in our garden and allotment).

DennisP 4y ago

What are the laws that make this especially difficult in England?

Paul_S 4y ago
Zoning. There are exceptions for rich people (no joke, Paragraph 79) and commercial farmers (arduous 3+ year journey). Everyone else is limited to existing tiny plots (even in villages) which cost at minimum 200K. Any detached house with more than quarter of an acre land will cost you a million. Contrast that with many European countries where for a small fee you can convert some agricultural land and build a house yourself.
- throwayyy479087 4y ago
  This is the process of suburban sprawl, fyi. No biggie if a few people do it, but once everyone does you get Phoenix or Dallas

CalRobert 4y ago

Wales might be an option considering their One Planet Development rules - http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/ http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/ - or for more detail http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/One-Planet-Development-TAN6.pdf http://www.oneplanetcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/0... While planning rules make it difficult to make new-builds in the countryside, you might look at fixer-uppers in rural Ireland. If you're a UK citizen you still have the right to live in Ireland. In many cases councils are eager to have people fixing up vacant houses, and grants are available. This is how I came to have thatched cottage on 3.5 acres in Co. Offaly. And I had ~40,000 euro, not 1 million pounds! I made a site to find properties like this, go to gaffologist.com/ and choose "advanced" if you want to select for acreage (warning - it's buggy!) https://www.youtube.com/@MossyBottom https://www.youtube.com/@MossyBottom is worth watching on this topic as well; he lives off-grid in rural Ireland and is fixing up an old cottage.

Paul_S 4y ago
Yes, I know Wales has some low impact development legislation but look at the history of many of those projects, years of court cases and several tens of thousands of pounds in fees. The successful ones (that I know of) are the ones that incorporated themselves or garnered enough media attention to stop the demolition. I know it sounds lazy but I don't want to start a movement, just build a house. I don't want to cut wheat with a scythe and live in a tipi (can't remember which one but it was one in England that did get permission). Thanks for the website, I'm amazed how cheap plots are in Ireland. It does look like Ireland has what I'm looking for: reasonably priced house/plot with a couple of acres of land. Those villages even have most of the grid! But see, that's the problem - all good advice boils down to "move out of England".
- CalRobert 4y ago
  "move out of England" seems like a good start regardless! Ireland would offer a familiar environment at least.

tcmb 4y ago

Maybe you can find a legal loophole. Something in British law granting freedom of choice of profession and livelihood, and the sue your way into peasanthood and land ownership. (Half joking)

Paul_S 4y ago
My current plan is legal loopholes which I am researching. I want to know the odds I'm against. There are plenty of loopholes if you just Google it but most of them are absolute nonsense and clickbait. There's one guy I know of who managed it through wood management building gray area. Looks most promising as it doesn't require 12 acres of land.

W0lfEagle 4y ago

I want the same for my family. We rent in England and can just about afford a big (not US big) country house with a garden and poly tunnel to grow our food. Trouble is, I spend 40+ hours a week writing code to make the money to pay the rent and bills etc and don't have much time left to live the life we're trying to build. We'll never afford the £1m mortgage to own the kind of house we want. My wife recently found the ecological land coop. You buy/rent your parcel of farmland in a small group of people doing the same thing. Rights to live and work on the land with some shared resources. https://ecologicalland.coop/ https://ecologicalland.coop/

Paul_S 4y ago
There's a couple of those companies doing this, I urge you to read carefully what they provide you and what the restrictions are. You might find that the benefits they provide are nothing you can't do yourself cheaper and the restrictions mean you are practically a tenant.

Paul_S 4y ago

If you live in the UK and have similar goals I created a telegram group to share research on how to move to the countryside without a million pounds: t.me/uk_rural_life