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You may think it's good news, but do you think any petrol or diesel car will be exempt in the long run - even your modest 1l? Do you think electric cars are cl

You may think it's good news, but do you think any petrol or diesel car will be exempt in the long run - even your modest 1l? Do you think electric cars are clean - their manufacture or energy? What is really occurring is geofencing. In Oxford, you will not be able to travel from one zone to another... Its just a trial... right? I'm the name of saving the world you are cheering on constraints on movement - we are moving into a virtual existence where the physical becomes an open prison. Of course, China continue to open coal power stations etc, while in the west we kill our old yet functional power stations and increase the electricity butted we need. The West is committing hari kari. And call it 'good'! Its insanity. How anyone can cheers these anti-human changes on, and even ask for more, beggars belief. You must be coding the dystopia, work in government, or some such, I think.

gryf 4y ago
No I certainly do not expect any car to be exempt. I'm cheering this on because they are constraining the future. This is putting pressure on society to adapt slowly and not pushing it out until we fall off a cliff (war). Electric cars are merely another crutch to carry on our bad behaviour as a species. Especially luxury ones. We need to start reshaping society around less transport. The fossil fuel glut and geopolitical situation around where we get it from is already causing us serious problems and this will only get worse. We need to drive efficiency and renewable energy and energy self sufficiency first.
- verisimi 4y ago
  For me, you are voicing principles that have been engineered in you. No one can choose constraint, etc. You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You only have the (self-serving) stories that the authorities tell you. Oh, and, they will be doing the constraining. And you will pay. Its a good gig, if you can get it, I guess...
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    > You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You state this as fact, without even checking with them what the problems are or how they know they’re there. Perhaps check if you are yourself consuming distorted information from self-serving outlets?
    - verisimi 4y ago
      Have you got personal evidence of the serious problems?
      - Swenrekcah 4y ago
        I can’t speak to what the other person was thinking. But in relation to geopolitical problems of the dependence on fossil fuels it’s perhaps most obvious to point to Putin’s war in Ukraine and how he calculated he’d get away with it because of Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas. That’s without even starting to calculate the cost of climate change.
- neverminder 4y ago
  What future is that? Future with no right to own or repair your hardware, where you own nothing and are completely dependent on the system to survive? The system that is just aching to introduce shit like social score and whatever comes after that? The solution to all the problems is easy, but nobody is brave enough to admit it: we need to reduce the number of people on this planet. Especially in severely overcrowded countries with unsustainable population projections.
cinntaile 4y ago
> Do you think electric cars are clean - their manufacture or energy? You fundamentally misunderstand the issue at hand. This is about reducing local emissions, which you achieve by taking these measures. How a car is manufactured or the energy required to manufacture it is of no concern here, unless the plant would be in London of course.
_dain_ 4y ago
"Geofencing"? Give me a break. Not being able to drive from one place to another in a straight line by car doesn't mean your city is becoming a prison. It's called "filtered permeability" and many cities in the free world (e.g. in the Netherlands) have done it since the 80s and it's fine. You have to go a bit further -- I'm sure you'll be alright a few extra minutes inside your climate-controlled metal box. If like me you don't own a car, you already live in a de facto "geofenced" world. I physically cannot get from my city to the city next door by bicycle in a reasonably fast and safe manner, even though they are less than 10 miles apart. Why? Because the roads aren't safe enough. What should be a pleasant 40 minute journey through the lovely British countryside, is instead a nasty 2 hour trudge through zigzagging housing estate streets and terrifying close passes with lorries on A-roads. Or I could take the train, but it only comes once an hour and there are still annoying trips to and from the stations. Even within my city there are zones where one has to make a 3-4 mile detour on a bike to get between places that are less than a kilometre apart, because the direct path is a 50mph motorway and there are literally no bike paths or canal towpaths or even pedestrian paths to get directly from one to the other. This wasn't done on purpose, just sheer carelessness and car-centric myopia. But that doesn't make it any less infuriating, that I pay for these roads with my taxes yet am unable to use them. Why don't I deserve to have my journey be reasonably direct and safe, just because I don't have a car? And then there are the people who want to ban escooters and rip out bike lanes and so on -- I bet you think that's just common sense and not the cruel assault on liberty and mobility that it really is. For my part I welcome the ULEZ and things like it. Every car taken off the road is a car that can't smash into me.
- verisimi 4y ago
  Remember you position, and tell me in 5 years tell me whether you are more or less able to move. remindme 5 years, lol. The way you choose to live btw - everywhere by bike, public transport, uber, or wherever - is the biggest part of the trick. You believe you are choosing to go along with the provided plan; quite wise really. If you love cycling, great. Your grannie or child might not. So people in just the next town, are, as you say, now out of bounds to you. And you are happy about it. You already have less freedom of movement than your parents did, and are happy about it. The plans are quite detailed about all the other things you will get a chance to be happy about. Online everything, micromanagements of resources. As long as you are able to maintain a rosey outlook about it all, you're free, right? Just don't choose outside of the (shrinking) menu, and you'll be fine.

gryf 4y ago

No I certainly do not expect any car to be exempt. I'm cheering this on because they are constraining the future. This is putting pressure on society to adapt slowly and not pushing it out until we fall off a cliff (war). Electric cars are merely another crutch to carry on our bad behaviour as a species. Especially luxury ones. We need to start reshaping society around less transport. The fossil fuel glut and geopolitical situation around where we get it from is already causing us serious problems and this will only get worse. We need to drive efficiency and renewable energy and energy self sufficiency first.

verisimi 4y ago
For me, you are voicing principles that have been engineered in you. No one can choose constraint, etc. You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You only have the (self-serving) stories that the authorities tell you. Oh, and, they will be doing the constraining. And you will pay. Its a good gig, if you can get it, I guess...
- Swenrekcah 4y ago
  > You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You state this as fact, without even checking with them what the problems are or how they know they’re there. Perhaps check if you are yourself consuming distorted information from self-serving outlets?
  - verisimi 4y ago
    Have you got personal evidence of the serious problems?
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      I can’t speak to what the other person was thinking. But in relation to geopolitical problems of the dependence on fossil fuels it’s perhaps most obvious to point to Putin’s war in Ukraine and how he calculated he’d get away with it because of Europe’s dependence on Russian oil and gas. That’s without even starting to calculate the cost of climate change.
neverminder 4y ago
What future is that? Future with no right to own or repair your hardware, where you own nothing and are completely dependent on the system to survive? The system that is just aching to introduce shit like social score and whatever comes after that? The solution to all the problems is easy, but nobody is brave enough to admit it: we need to reduce the number of people on this planet. Especially in severely overcrowded countries with unsustainable population projections.

cinntaile 4y ago

> Do you think electric cars are clean - their manufacture or energy? You fundamentally misunderstand the issue at hand. This is about reducing local emissions, which you achieve by taking these measures. How a car is manufactured or the energy required to manufacture it is of no concern here, unless the plant would be in London of course.

_dain_ 4y ago

"Geofencing"? Give me a break. Not being able to drive from one place to another in a straight line by car doesn't mean your city is becoming a prison. It's called "filtered permeability" and many cities in the free world (e.g. in the Netherlands) have done it since the 80s and it's fine. You have to go a bit further -- I'm sure you'll be alright a few extra minutes inside your climate-controlled metal box. If like me you don't own a car, you already live in a de facto "geofenced" world. I physically cannot get from my city to the city next door by bicycle in a reasonably fast and safe manner, even though they are less than 10 miles apart. Why? Because the roads aren't safe enough. What should be a pleasant 40 minute journey through the lovely British countryside, is instead a nasty 2 hour trudge through zigzagging housing estate streets and terrifying close passes with lorries on A-roads. Or I could take the train, but it only comes once an hour and there are still annoying trips to and from the stations. Even within my city there are zones where one has to make a 3-4 mile detour on a bike to get between places that are less than a kilometre apart, because the direct path is a 50mph motorway and there are literally no bike paths or canal towpaths or even pedestrian paths to get directly from one to the other. This wasn't done on purpose, just sheer carelessness and car-centric myopia. But that doesn't make it any less infuriating, that I pay for these roads with my taxes yet am unable to use them. Why don't I deserve to have my journey be reasonably direct and safe, just because I don't have a car? And then there are the people who want to ban escooters and rip out bike lanes and so on -- I bet you think that's just common sense and not the cruel assault on liberty and mobility that it really is. For my part I welcome the ULEZ and things like it. Every car taken off the road is a car that can't smash into me.

verisimi 4y ago
Remember you position, and tell me in 5 years tell me whether you are more or less able to move. remindme 5 years, lol. The way you choose to live btw - everywhere by bike, public transport, uber, or wherever - is the biggest part of the trick. You believe you are choosing to go along with the provided plan; quite wise really. If you love cycling, great. Your grannie or child might not. So people in just the next town, are, as you say, now out of bounds to you. And you are happy about it. You already have less freedom of movement than your parents did, and are happy about it. The plans are quite detailed about all the other things you will get a chance to be happy about. Online everything, micromanagements of resources. As long as you are able to maintain a rosey outlook about it all, you're free, right? Just don't choose outside of the (shrinking) menu, and you'll be fine.