7 ms·

This is good news. The complainants however need to get realistic. I drive a 2014 vehicle which is exempt from this regulation entirely and there is no daily c

by gryf 4y ago

This is good news. The complainants however need to get realistic. I drive a 2014 vehicle which is exempt from this regulation entirely and there is no daily charge. I bought it in 2017 knowing full well that this was going to happen. It's a modest 1.0L 3-cyl petrol. It's comfortable, cheap to run and has a decent safety rating. The problem is really that people have got used to buying oversize, overpowered luxury vehicles when they really need to either not bother and use public transport or downsize to something with less of an environmental impact. My neighbour has a 4.8L Porsche Cayenne. No one needs one of those on this planet and wanting one is no longer an excuse to own one.

rosnd 4y ago
A big problem is that there are no good small cars available. I want a small car with an interior comparable with that of the S-class, does not exist. Closest thing is the 911, which is still quite wide and not all that comfortable. If I want an "appropriate" sized car for London, I'll have to drive some shitbox.
- tromp 4y ago
  > I want a small car with an interior comparable with that of the S-class Yes, building a small car with a large interior remains a challenge...
  - rosnd 4y ago
    The interior size isn't the problem, it's the interior quality. A Toyota corolla has way more than enough interior space if you remove the rear seats.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- gryf 4y ago
  That interior adds mass and you need a bigger engine to lug it around. That's exactly what needs to go away.
  - bbbbb5 4y ago
    Mercedes sells a S-class with a 2L i4 engine, I don't think this is really going to be an issue.
- dogma1138 4y ago
  You want the leg and head room of an S class in a sub compact car? Maybe ask Dr Who for help.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    Shouldn't be a massive challenge without a rear seat wasting space. But no, I was talking about the quality of the interior and not leg or head room.
    - dogma1138 4y ago
      A class AMG or any of the premium lines?
      - rosnd 4y ago
        The AMG-version, while a fun car, will be even less comfortable than the non-AMG. The A-class was unfortunately built to be an economy car, slightly improving the interior materials doesn't solve that. You can't option it with fancier seats, suspension or insulation.
- blowski 4y ago
  The whole point of dealing with climate change and pollution is that we all have to make some compromises. If yours needs to be either paying more to drive in London, or driving a more eco-car, or not driving there at all - that sounds pretty good to me.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    Oh I don't care about paying to drive in London, I'd be celebrating if they raised the congestion charge tenfold. I'm just pointing out that the current vehicle market forces anyone seeking a comfortable, low-NVH car to get something quite large. EDIT: HN ratelimits prevent me from replying below, so here you go: > You can drive whatever car you like in London, but you'd have to pay both congestion charge and ULEZ charge I know! I very happily pay these charges and want them to be vastly higher. > Alternatively, you might need to be less fussy about what you call "comfortable" No, why? I didn't work this much to be less fussy about comfort. I just think it'd be nicer for everyone if there were cars on the market that filled my needs without wasting absurd amounts of space on a rear seat that gets used a couple of times a year. Regulators should address this by imposing taxes on vehicle size.
    - blowski 4y ago
      You can drive whatever car you like in London, but you'd have to pay both congestion charge and ULEZ charge. Alternatively, you might need to be less fussy about what you call "comfortable".
  - Normille 4y ago
    >The whole point of dealing with climate change and pollution is that we all have to make some compromises... Said a load of government ministers and other junketeers, after flying halfway round the world in private jets, to attend a conference discussing the environment.
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      I always dislike this line of argument, it feels unproductive. I detest frivolous use of fossil-fuel private jets and all flights of them should absolutely be taxed to the roof and the funds used for climate mitigation. However, if you’re a bigshot person who can have outsized influence (like POTUS or some billionaire or something) then by all means attend the relevant conferences and make an impact. If your beef is that the conferences are not effective then that’s something we can discuss, but don’t distract by talking about the way people arrive, unless it’s to propose some kind of carbon/pollution tax in which case I wholeheartedly agree.
- normaler 4y ago
  Brabus SMART car would be exactly that.
  - rosnd 4y ago
    I've driven one, it really isn't that different from a regular SMART. I also got to try the bizarre Aston Martin Cygnet, just a Toyota with fairly little lipstick on it.
dogma1138 4y ago
His Cayenne is compliant unless it’s a very old one and doesn’t comply with Euro 4 standard. Any petrol car that is compliant with Euro 4 and any diesel car that is compliant with Euro 6 is ULEZ compliant. The big impact would be on diesel vehicles since due to the NOx emissions cap they need Euro 6 which isn’t only stricter but newer so older diesel cars aren’t compliant whilst pretty much every petrol car from 2007 or so would be. So tradesmen vans and other work vehicles would likely to be severely impacted by this which will increase the prices to the end consumer since they’ll just roll over the daily ULEZ charge. Your plumber isn’t going to buy a new van especially since the enlargement of ULEZ is going to crash its value they will however pass the ~£20 charge onto you the next time you call them like they already do with the inner London ULEZ.
- gryf 4y ago
  Just checked it. You're right. It is compliant! Colour me surprised. I still stand by my point about wanting something not being enough. He's single and drives a 4.8L vehicle to shopping and golf and back and that's about it. That's the hallmark of conspicuous consumption and I dislike that entirely. There is no outward responsibility at all. I don't mind costs being passed down. My plumber has an electric van and his rates are far more reasonable than most in the area. Delivery vehicles in this part of London are moving over to electric as well.
  - RhysU 4y ago
    > He's single and drives a 4.8L vehicle to shopping and golf and back and that's about it. So then he's sparingly using the inefficient vehicle in a way that he enjoys? Seems legit. I mean, one could always demand that others do marginally more efficient things at the expense of their marginal happiness. But there's no limiting principle. The logical conclusion of this particular line of thinking is that we all must ride electric scooters with studded tires in the dead of winter.
    - pchangr 4y ago
      The logical conclusion IMHO is that we should all be using public transport. And if we don’t find that appealing we should consider it a public administration failure. No one should need a car. I’d take it that it might be necessary for rural areas but definitely not in a city.
verisimi 4y ago
You may think it's good news, but do you think any petrol or diesel car will be exempt in the long run - even your modest 1l? Do you think electric cars are clean - their manufacture or energy? What is really occurring is geofencing. In Oxford, you will not be able to travel from one zone to another... Its just a trial... right? I'm the name of saving the world you are cheering on constraints on movement - we are moving into a virtual existence where the physical becomes an open prison. Of course, China continue to open coal power stations etc, while in the west we kill our old yet functional power stations and increase the electricity butted we need. The West is committing hari kari. And call it 'good'! Its insanity. How anyone can cheers these anti-human changes on, and even ask for more, beggars belief. You must be coding the dystopia, work in government, or some such, I think.
- gryf 4y ago
  No I certainly do not expect any car to be exempt. I'm cheering this on because they are constraining the future. This is putting pressure on society to adapt slowly and not pushing it out until we fall off a cliff (war). Electric cars are merely another crutch to carry on our bad behaviour as a species. Especially luxury ones. We need to start reshaping society around less transport. The fossil fuel glut and geopolitical situation around where we get it from is already causing us serious problems and this will only get worse. We need to drive efficiency and renewable energy and energy self sufficiency first.
  - verisimi 4y ago
    For me, you are voicing principles that have been engineered in you. No one can choose constraint, etc. You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You only have the (self-serving) stories that the authorities tell you. Oh, and, they will be doing the constraining. And you will pay. Its a good gig, if you can get it, I guess...
    - Swenrekcah 4y ago
      > You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You state this as fact, without even checking with them what the problems are or how they know they’re there. Perhaps check if you are yourself consuming distorted information from self-serving outlets?

by gryf 4y ago

rosnd 4y ago

A big problem is that there are no good small cars available. I want a small car with an interior comparable with that of the S-class, does not exist. Closest thing is the 911, which is still quite wide and not all that comfortable. If I want an "appropriate" sized car for London, I'll have to drive some shitbox.

tromp 4y ago
> I want a small car with an interior comparable with that of the S-class Yes, building a small car with a large interior remains a challenge...
- rosnd 4y ago
  The interior size isn't the problem, it's the interior quality. A Toyota corolla has way more than enough interior space if you remove the rear seats.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
gryf 4y ago
That interior adds mass and you need a bigger engine to lug it around. That's exactly what needs to go away.
- bbbbb5 4y ago
  Mercedes sells a S-class with a 2L i4 engine, I don't think this is really going to be an issue.
dogma1138 4y ago
You want the leg and head room of an S class in a sub compact car? Maybe ask Dr Who for help.
- rosnd 4y ago
  Shouldn't be a massive challenge without a rear seat wasting space. But no, I was talking about the quality of the interior and not leg or head room.
  - dogma1138 4y ago
    A class AMG or any of the premium lines?
    - rosnd 4y ago
      The AMG-version, while a fun car, will be even less comfortable than the non-AMG. The A-class was unfortunately built to be an economy car, slightly improving the interior materials doesn't solve that. You can't option it with fancier seats, suspension or insulation.
blowski 4y ago
The whole point of dealing with climate change and pollution is that we all have to make some compromises. If yours needs to be either paying more to drive in London, or driving a more eco-car, or not driving there at all - that sounds pretty good to me.
- rosnd 4y ago
  Oh I don't care about paying to drive in London, I'd be celebrating if they raised the congestion charge tenfold. I'm just pointing out that the current vehicle market forces anyone seeking a comfortable, low-NVH car to get something quite large. EDIT: HN ratelimits prevent me from replying below, so here you go: > You can drive whatever car you like in London, but you'd have to pay both congestion charge and ULEZ charge I know! I very happily pay these charges and want them to be vastly higher. > Alternatively, you might need to be less fussy about what you call "comfortable" No, why? I didn't work this much to be less fussy about comfort. I just think it'd be nicer for everyone if there were cars on the market that filled my needs without wasting absurd amounts of space on a rear seat that gets used a couple of times a year. Regulators should address this by imposing taxes on vehicle size.
  - blowski 4y ago
    You can drive whatever car you like in London, but you'd have to pay both congestion charge and ULEZ charge. Alternatively, you might need to be less fussy about what you call "comfortable".
- Normille 4y ago
  >The whole point of dealing with climate change and pollution is that we all have to make some compromises... Said a load of government ministers and other junketeers, after flying halfway round the world in private jets, to attend a conference discussing the environment.
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    I always dislike this line of argument, it feels unproductive. I detest frivolous use of fossil-fuel private jets and all flights of them should absolutely be taxed to the roof and the funds used for climate mitigation. However, if you’re a bigshot person who can have outsized influence (like POTUS or some billionaire or something) then by all means attend the relevant conferences and make an impact. If your beef is that the conferences are not effective then that’s something we can discuss, but don’t distract by talking about the way people arrive, unless it’s to propose some kind of carbon/pollution tax in which case I wholeheartedly agree.
normaler 4y ago
Brabus SMART car would be exactly that.
- rosnd 4y ago
  I've driven one, it really isn't that different from a regular SMART. I also got to try the bizarre Aston Martin Cygnet, just a Toyota with fairly little lipstick on it.

dogma1138 4y ago

His Cayenne is compliant unless it’s a very old one and doesn’t comply with Euro 4 standard. Any petrol car that is compliant with Euro 4 and any diesel car that is compliant with Euro 6 is ULEZ compliant. The big impact would be on diesel vehicles since due to the NOx emissions cap they need Euro 6 which isn’t only stricter but newer so older diesel cars aren’t compliant whilst pretty much every petrol car from 2007 or so would be. So tradesmen vans and other work vehicles would likely to be severely impacted by this which will increase the prices to the end consumer since they’ll just roll over the daily ULEZ charge. Your plumber isn’t going to buy a new van especially since the enlargement of ULEZ is going to crash its value they will however pass the ~£20 charge onto you the next time you call them like they already do with the inner London ULEZ.

gryf 4y ago
Just checked it. You're right. It is compliant! Colour me surprised. I still stand by my point about wanting something not being enough. He's single and drives a 4.8L vehicle to shopping and golf and back and that's about it. That's the hallmark of conspicuous consumption and I dislike that entirely. There is no outward responsibility at all. I don't mind costs being passed down. My plumber has an electric van and his rates are far more reasonable than most in the area. Delivery vehicles in this part of London are moving over to electric as well.
- RhysU 4y ago
  > He's single and drives a 4.8L vehicle to shopping and golf and back and that's about it. So then he's sparingly using the inefficient vehicle in a way that he enjoys? Seems legit. I mean, one could always demand that others do marginally more efficient things at the expense of their marginal happiness. But there's no limiting principle. The logical conclusion of this particular line of thinking is that we all must ride electric scooters with studded tires in the dead of winter.
  - pchangr 4y ago
    The logical conclusion IMHO is that we should all be using public transport. And if we don’t find that appealing we should consider it a public administration failure. No one should need a car. I’d take it that it might be necessary for rural areas but definitely not in a city.

verisimi 4y ago

You may think it's good news, but do you think any petrol or diesel car will be exempt in the long run - even your modest 1l? Do you think electric cars are clean - their manufacture or energy? What is really occurring is geofencing. In Oxford, you will not be able to travel from one zone to another... Its just a trial... right? I'm the name of saving the world you are cheering on constraints on movement - we are moving into a virtual existence where the physical becomes an open prison. Of course, China continue to open coal power stations etc, while in the west we kill our old yet functional power stations and increase the electricity butted we need. The West is committing hari kari. And call it 'good'! Its insanity. How anyone can cheers these anti-human changes on, and even ask for more, beggars belief. You must be coding the dystopia, work in government, or some such, I think.

gryf 4y ago
No I certainly do not expect any car to be exempt. I'm cheering this on because they are constraining the future. This is putting pressure on society to adapt slowly and not pushing it out until we fall off a cliff (war). Electric cars are merely another crutch to carry on our bad behaviour as a species. Especially luxury ones. We need to start reshaping society around less transport. The fossil fuel glut and geopolitical situation around where we get it from is already causing us serious problems and this will only get worse. We need to drive efficiency and renewable energy and energy self sufficiency first.
- verisimi 4y ago
  For me, you are voicing principles that have been engineered in you. No one can choose constraint, etc. You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You only have the (self-serving) stories that the authorities tell you. Oh, and, they will be doing the constraining. And you will pay. Its a good gig, if you can get it, I guess...
  - Swenrekcah 4y ago
    > You say there are serious problems, but you have precisely zero personal evidence, like everyone else. You state this as fact, without even checking with them what the problems are or how they know they’re there. Perhaps check if you are yourself consuming distorted information from self-serving outlets?