4 ms·

So it is little worse than unions done good.

Shoue 4y ago
That's an odd critique considering coops exist to solve the friction between unions and businesses by building the democratic control into the business itself, avoiding the need for a union. Especially when you consider all the union busting tactics used by leadership at traditional businesses – how are you even supposed to form a union when they won't let you? Coops come at that from a different angle: you get democratic control, straight up. Don't like your leadership if you choose to structure the business that way? You can actually vote them out of their role.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections If you have broad support from the employee base, “they” can’t block a union certification election. If you’re having trouble forming a union, you’re probably struggling at the “get employees to want your union” step in the process.
  - sofixa 4y ago
    You should let Amazon, Starbucks, Walmart and similar know this. Their union busting tactics are widely documented (including shutting down locations starting to form a union).
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      They do know this. Many of their tactics are specifically directed at “make the employees not want the union”. Some of those tactics are under-handed, even despicable, but it’s safe to say that they know this and act in accordance.
      - sofixa 4y ago
        Firing everyone in a store in the process of unionizing isn't "make employees not want the union", it's retaliating against those that do and instilling fear in the rest.
        sokoloff 4y ago
        You might not like the methods (and in some cases, they are not legal), but I think that’s exactly what it does. Fear makes (some) people not want the union. Firing pro-union employees also obviously directly reduces the number of employees who are pro-union.
  - joxel 4y ago
    So I’m guessing your head has been in the sand for the last decade while Starbucks and Amazon shut down places that attempt to unionize?
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "Especially when you consider all the union busting tactics used by leadership at traditional businesses – how are you even supposed to form a union when they won't let you?" Even when you manage to form a union, companies have ways of screwing you over. Case in point was the recent successful unionization of a Starbucks location in Seattle you might have heard about on the news. Starbucks' reaction? They just closed that location.[1] [1] - https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/business/starbucks-closure-union/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/business/starbucks-closure-un...
- bluesign 4y ago
  Normally with union done right, you would have voice in management. Problem is all you see is non-working unions ( union busting etc also from sibling comments) Thats why I commented union done good from the beginning.
Ericson2314 4y ago
There are coops where a union acts as a VC of sorts. Unions are supposed to take over bussinesses and turn them into Coops. Workplace democracy is always the end goal, decent compensation is just a step along that route and arguably even at times a distraction.

That's an odd critique considering coops exist to solve the friction between unions and businesses by building the democratic control into the business itself, avoiding the need for a union. Especially when you consider all the union busting tactics used by leadership at traditional businesses – how are you even supposed to form a union when they won't let you? Coops come at that from a different angle: you get democratic control, straight up. Don't like your leadership if you choose to structure the business that way? You can actually vote them out of their role.

sokoloff 4y ago
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/what-we-do/conduct-elections If you have broad support from the employee base, “they” can’t block a union certification election. If you’re having trouble forming a union, you’re probably struggling at the “get employees to want your union” step in the process.
- sofixa 4y ago
  You should let Amazon, Starbucks, Walmart and similar know this. Their union busting tactics are widely documented (including shutting down locations starting to form a union).
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    They do know this. Many of their tactics are specifically directed at “make the employees not want the union”. Some of those tactics are under-handed, even despicable, but it’s safe to say that they know this and act in accordance.
    - sofixa 4y ago
      Firing everyone in a store in the process of unionizing isn't "make employees not want the union", it's retaliating against those that do and instilling fear in the rest.
      - sokoloff 4y ago
        You might not like the methods (and in some cases, they are not legal), but I think that’s exactly what it does. Fear makes (some) people not want the union. Firing pro-union employees also obviously directly reduces the number of employees who are pro-union.
- joxel 4y ago
  So I’m guessing your head has been in the sand for the last decade while Starbucks and Amazon shut down places that attempt to unionize?
pmoriarty 4y ago
"Especially when you consider all the union busting tactics used by leadership at traditional businesses – how are you even supposed to form a union when they won't let you?" Even when you manage to form a union, companies have ways of screwing you over. Case in point was the recent successful unionization of a Starbucks location in Seattle you might have heard about on the news. Starbucks' reaction? They just closed that location.[1] [1] - https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/business/starbucks-closure-union/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/22/business/starbucks-closure-un...
bluesign 4y ago
Normally with union done right, you would have voice in management. Problem is all you see is non-working unions ( union busting etc also from sibling comments) Thats why I commented union done good from the beginning.

Ericson2314 4y ago

There are coops where a union acts as a VC of sorts. Unions are supposed to take over bussinesses and turn them into Coops. Workplace democracy is always the end goal, decent compensation is just a step along that route and arguably even at times a distraction.