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Loneliness in the context of Western society is a result of the influence of American culture. It puts systems, politics and economic success far above the inte

Loneliness in the context of Western society is a result of the influence of American culture. It puts systems, politics and economic success far above the integrity of the human individual.

bjornsing 4y ago
> It puts systems, politics and economic success far above the integrity of the human individual. This sounds weird to me. I’m not American, but to me it seems like American culture puts a very high value of integrity, much higher than most of the rest of the world. I’d say integrity is always in conflict with belonging: if you insist on being yourself, having your own values and beliefs, then it will be more difficult to “fit in”. So I’d say American culture prioritizes integrity over belonging. I guess that’s what individualism is.
- shswkna 4y ago
  With integrity I meant “intactness”/ wholesomeness, or being a balanced human being. I refer to the value system of society. This is different to individualism in the popular context. In the way I meant it, classic individualism can often be opposite to being a balanced (and whole/integer) individual. It is never an either/or situation. There are also several layers. For example, a society could be advocating for solidarity with a community at expense of individualistic expression, yet in its nuances all individuals might be more balanced: maybe because they are part of a community, and the individual is catered for by having a culture that carefully balances understanding of the individual against the requirements of society. The labels of socialism, capitalism etc are smokescreens that prevent us from looking at the nuances of culture and how it affects us. For example, capitalism will celebrate the individual’s right and freedoms on the frontend, where in fact society expects us to be successful and sacrifice a lot for our material economic success. Again, the cultural “pressures” and “elements of care” express themselves in different layers and contexts. The richer a culture, the more layers to mitigate the influence of another. Layers of culture can be: Family, Work, Sport, Arts, Internet social spheres, Organisations or hobbies, etc. Thus we would do well to increase richness of culture again, vs. the overbearing influence of our telephones (for example).
  - bjornsing 4y ago
    > With integrity I meant “intactness”/ wholesomeness, or being a balanced human being. I refer to the value system of society. This is different to individualism in the popular context. I don’t know… I grew up in a highly collectivist and conformist culture (Sweden of the 70/80-ties). My view is that this “balanced” personality is something that is forced on people through socialization. That may feel great to those (90%?) who are naturally like this, but it requires totally crushing the (10%?) outliers. Being a whole human being means being yourself, regardless of how “balanced” other people think that self is.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
seydor 4y ago
it isnt just american and seems to be widespread in northern europe too. maybe it's protestant or sth
xkbarkar 4y ago
No I disagree. Northern Europe naturally fall into loneliness with their culture combined with dependency on the state. Family grouos are small and people are easily siloed. Once you start a family of your own its not uncommon to lose almost all relation with anyone else outside your partner and children. Troublemakers ( as in physically and/or mentally Ill ) are handed off to the government. The government are also responsible for helping you take care of the children and make ends meet financially. Making it less necessary to maintain connection with family and friends. And so everyone silos up. For better or for worse Id argue that socialism has very much contributed to loneliness in northern europe. Not American influence. This problem predates the internet and smartphones.
- mustaddon 4y ago
  I always wonder how much of this is by choice ? While what you say is true for many Scandinavian families, there's no law of nature that forces people to isolate, to not stay in touch with family and friends, or to not be interested in building connection with new people in their lives. So why is it so ?
  - yhavr 4y ago
    For the most time of year, there is uncomfortable weather/darkness that doesn't motivate to go out and meet others.
bayesian_horse 4y ago
I call bullshit.

Loneliness in the context of Western society is a result of the influence of American culture. It puts systems, politics and economic success far above the integrity of the human individual.

bjornsing 4y ago

> It puts systems, politics and economic success far above the integrity of the human individual. This sounds weird to me. I’m not American, but to me it seems like American culture puts a very high value of integrity, much higher than most of the rest of the world. I’d say integrity is always in conflict with belonging: if you insist on being yourself, having your own values and beliefs, then it will be more difficult to “fit in”. So I’d say American culture prioritizes integrity over belonging. I guess that’s what individualism is.

shswkna 4y ago
With integrity I meant “intactness”/ wholesomeness, or being a balanced human being. I refer to the value system of society. This is different to individualism in the popular context. In the way I meant it, classic individualism can often be opposite to being a balanced (and whole/integer) individual. It is never an either/or situation. There are also several layers. For example, a society could be advocating for solidarity with a community at expense of individualistic expression, yet in its nuances all individuals might be more balanced: maybe because they are part of a community, and the individual is catered for by having a culture that carefully balances understanding of the individual against the requirements of society. The labels of socialism, capitalism etc are smokescreens that prevent us from looking at the nuances of culture and how it affects us. For example, capitalism will celebrate the individual’s right and freedoms on the frontend, where in fact society expects us to be successful and sacrifice a lot for our material economic success. Again, the cultural “pressures” and “elements of care” express themselves in different layers and contexts. The richer a culture, the more layers to mitigate the influence of another. Layers of culture can be: Family, Work, Sport, Arts, Internet social spheres, Organisations or hobbies, etc. Thus we would do well to increase richness of culture again, vs. the overbearing influence of our telephones (for example).
- bjornsing 4y ago
  > With integrity I meant “intactness”/ wholesomeness, or being a balanced human being. I refer to the value system of society. This is different to individualism in the popular context. I don’t know… I grew up in a highly collectivist and conformist culture (Sweden of the 70/80-ties). My view is that this “balanced” personality is something that is forced on people through socialization. That may feel great to those (90%?) who are naturally like this, but it requires totally crushing the (10%?) outliers. Being a whole human being means being yourself, regardless of how “balanced” other people think that self is.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

seydor 4y ago

it isnt just american and seems to be widespread in northern europe too. maybe it's protestant or sth

xkbarkar 4y ago

No I disagree. Northern Europe naturally fall into loneliness with their culture combined with dependency on the state. Family grouos are small and people are easily siloed. Once you start a family of your own its not uncommon to lose almost all relation with anyone else outside your partner and children. Troublemakers ( as in physically and/or mentally Ill ) are handed off to the government. The government are also responsible for helping you take care of the children and make ends meet financially. Making it less necessary to maintain connection with family and friends. And so everyone silos up. For better or for worse Id argue that socialism has very much contributed to loneliness in northern europe. Not American influence. This problem predates the internet and smartphones.

mustaddon 4y ago
I always wonder how much of this is by choice ? While what you say is true for many Scandinavian families, there's no law of nature that forces people to isolate, to not stay in touch with family and friends, or to not be interested in building connection with new people in their lives. So why is it so ?
- yhavr 4y ago
  For the most time of year, there is uncomfortable weather/darkness that doesn't motivate to go out and meet others.

bayesian_horse 4y ago

I call bullshit.