5 ms·

You’re making a lot of interesting assumptions based on nothing I can see. It would be fascinating to hear more about where you get these ideas from.

s5300 4y ago
Probably from growing up in one of said areas that obviously majorly benefit. What they’re saying is very much true, I’m curious of your upbringing & knowledge of the topic if you really think they’re wrong
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  You couldn’t be further off base.
woodruffw 4y ago
I'm happy to try and walk through my assumptions (although maybe not at this very moment, since it's late here). If you list out the ones that you think I'm making, I'll try my best to substantiate them.
- reissbaker 4y ago
  Your assumption is that " the DoD is really just a $800B jobs program," because people are too embarrassed to accept welfare. I'm similarly interested to see evidence backing that up. Another specific claim, for example: We can't make it obvious that we want to build a large, well-educated, and financially stable middle class by dumping money onto it, so we build it up by dumping money into the DoD instead FWIW, the DoD employs 1.3MM active duty service members, 750k civilians, and 800k National Guard and Reserve service members [1]. That's about 3MM people, generously rounding up. If you consider the surrounding defense industry, that's about another 800k jobs [3], so let's super-generously round up to 4MM. Considering that there are 207MM working age people in the U.S. [2], I'd be surprised if there was broad support for the DoD primarily on the basis of the number of jobs it provides or as a welfare alternative. That's $800k a year per job created! Seems fairly inefficient as a job creation scheme given the median salary in the U.S. is about $54k a year [4]. And compared to the 4MM jobs in defense, in 2019 roughly 59MM Americans were the recipients of some sort of direct welfare program [5]. 1: https://trumpadministration.archives.performance.gov/defense/ https://trumpadministration.archives.performance.gov/defense... 2: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S 3: https://www.clearedconnections.com/security-clearance-news/security-clearance/defense-jobs-make-up-10-percent-of-u-s-manufacturing-demand.htm https://www.clearedconnections.com/security-clearance-news/s... 4: https://www.thebalancemoney.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Bureau%20of,higher%20than%20a%20year%20earlier https://www.thebalancemoney.com/average-salary-information-f.... 5: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/99674/five_things_you_may_not_know_about_the_us_social_safety_net_1.pdf https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/99674/...
  - Throw10987 4y ago
    Veterans Affairs is also a big Chunk of change that also goes on in perpetuity. 412k employees and 10+ million on benefits Depending on how you count, defense industry could be 3.5 mil employees. https://siteselection.com/issues/2012/sep/sas-military-economy.cfm#:~:text=The%20indirect%20and%20induced%20employment,minimum%20of%203.5%20million%20jobs https://siteselection.com/issues/2012/sep/sas-military-econo....
Throw10987 4y ago
War is a racket - Smedley Butler Major General US Marine Corps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket#:~:text=War%20Is%20a%20Racket%20is,interests%20commercially%20benefit%20from%20warfare https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket#:~:text=War%....
- imwillofficial 4y ago
  Awesome quote, but war being a money making scheme does not make it a jobs program.
thehappypm 4y ago
Reddit oozes with ideas like this

s5300 4y ago

Probably from growing up in one of said areas that obviously majorly benefit. What they’re saying is very much true, I’m curious of your upbringing & knowledge of the topic if you really think they’re wrong

imwillofficial 4y ago
You couldn’t be further off base.

woodruffw 4y ago

I'm happy to try and walk through my assumptions (although maybe not at this very moment, since it's late here). If you list out the ones that you think I'm making, I'll try my best to substantiate them.

reissbaker 4y ago
Your assumption is that " the DoD is really just a $800B jobs program," because people are too embarrassed to accept welfare. I'm similarly interested to see evidence backing that up. Another specific claim, for example: We can't make it obvious that we want to build a large, well-educated, and financially stable middle class by dumping money onto it, so we build it up by dumping money into the DoD instead FWIW, the DoD employs 1.3MM active duty service members, 750k civilians, and 800k National Guard and Reserve service members [1]. That's about 3MM people, generously rounding up. If you consider the surrounding defense industry, that's about another 800k jobs [3], so let's super-generously round up to 4MM. Considering that there are 207MM working age people in the U.S. [2], I'd be surprised if there was broad support for the DoD primarily on the basis of the number of jobs it provides or as a welfare alternative. That's $800k a year per job created! Seems fairly inefficient as a job creation scheme given the median salary in the U.S. is about $54k a year [4]. And compared to the 4MM jobs in defense, in 2019 roughly 59MM Americans were the recipients of some sort of direct welfare program [5]. 1: https://trumpadministration.archives.performance.gov/defense/ https://trumpadministration.archives.performance.gov/defense... 2: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LFWA64TTUSM647S 3: https://www.clearedconnections.com/security-clearance-news/security-clearance/defense-jobs-make-up-10-percent-of-u-s-manufacturing-demand.htm https://www.clearedconnections.com/security-clearance-news/s... 4: https://www.thebalancemoney.com/average-salary-information-for-us-workers-2060808#:~:text=According%20to%20the%20Bureau%20of,higher%20than%20a%20year%20earlier https://www.thebalancemoney.com/average-salary-information-f.... 5: https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/99674/five_things_you_may_not_know_about_the_us_social_safety_net_1.pdf https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/99674/...
- Throw10987 4y ago
  Veterans Affairs is also a big Chunk of change that also goes on in perpetuity. 412k employees and 10+ million on benefits Depending on how you count, defense industry could be 3.5 mil employees. https://siteselection.com/issues/2012/sep/sas-military-economy.cfm#:~:text=The%20indirect%20and%20induced%20employment,minimum%20of%203.5%20million%20jobs https://siteselection.com/issues/2012/sep/sas-military-econo....

Throw10987 4y ago

War is a racket - Smedley Butler Major General US Marine Corps https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket#:~:text=War%20Is%20a%20Racket%20is,interests%20commercially%20benefit%20from%20warfare https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket#:~:text=War%....

imwillofficial 4y ago
Awesome quote, but war being a money making scheme does not make it a jobs program.

thehappypm 4y ago

Reddit oozes with ideas like this