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Miserable stuff. Ordinary Americans in 2016 might have creature comforts that weren't available to John D. Rockefeller, but this does not somehow translate to b

Miserable stuff. Ordinary Americans in 2016 might have creature comforts that weren't available to John D. Rockefeller, but this does not somehow translate to being "richer than" Rockefeller. Rockefeller's wealth can be seen 100 years later, in forms that no creature comfort can surpass: media and political power, generations of rich and powerful children, and countless buildings and institutions named after his family. None of that is meaningfully offset by the fact that it's easier for me to keep ice cream cold, that I can travel to France a little bit faster (but a whole lot less comfortably), or that I can watch content produced by his progeny online whenever I please.

derekp7 4y ago
But would you give up all your access to anything modern, for the rest of your life, in order to have the power and influence that Rockefeller had? Primitive medical treatment, limited communications to others that aren't in your vicinity, no modern entertainment? Example: Last year I went to my doctor, who informed me (based on a readout from a machine that analyzed a blood sample) that I needed to exercise more, lose weight, and change my diet in certain aspects in order to live a bit longer (I had high cholesterol). And this year at my annual checkup I found out my changes worked, and cholesterol is way down. This is something that wouldn't be knowable back in Rockefeller's time.
- woodruffw 4y ago
  Yes, in a heartbeat. Besides, the man lived to 97, and by 1916 the majority of excess deaths happened by early childhood. (Also, why do we talk about 1916 like they didn't have instantaneous communication? They'd been telegraphing across the country for nearly 60 years by that point! It certainly isn't text messaging, but I think I'd survive.)
- gloryjulio 4y ago
  Lucky for u to be still able to afford the doctor. Also lots of ppl don't have shelter security. Many are just one incident or bad luck away from being homeless.
- dismantlethesun 4y ago
  > But would you give up all your access to anything modern, for the rest of your life, in order to have the power and influence that Rockefeller had? [...] no modern entertainment? So let me get this straight, you would trade the power to shape the modern industrial world for the power to amongst other things, watch cat videos on demand? Imagine, the power to end segregation fifty years earlier than before, the power to bring women's rights to the forefront decades earlier, the power to stand up for the oppressed, the sick, and the poor and actually have the elites in government and industry listen to you? To give that up so one can have cellphones and video chat? It's possible that you do regard creature comforts to be of primary importance, but I'd ask you to reconsider. Rockefeller lived in the 1900s, not the Bronze Age. It's not such a downgrade from the current era that one should discount all that you can do with the power of being the richest person in the world. Don't you have any social causes you support?
  - Pigalowda 4y ago
    So you’re saying this scenario is like time travel? To be rich as Rockefeller in his time but still have your current brain?
    - dismantlethesun 4y ago
      Basically, otherwise what's the point? You'll just be a different person in a different time.
- hackeraccount 4y ago
  Try getting around without a real toothbrush. Or toilet paper. That's probably 80% of Rockefeller's life.
rmbyrro 4y ago
Only a fool would trade modern life for the mentioned "power". Best thing today is: I can ditch the "power struggle" stuff and live a happy, healthy and fulfilling life. Unless I fall for the mental manipulations used to draw people as pawns into "power struggles".
- cykros 4y ago
  Except that if your elected officials decide to act in a way that would jeopardize your creature comforts, you can...tweet about it? Meanwhile, he'd just get new officials installed, and ensure that he maintained his comfort. See the difference?
  - rmbyrro 4y ago
    I don't use Twitter, I chose to be happy
- pgcj_poster 4y ago
  If you can have a happy life without thinking about power struggles, it's because you were born on the winning team.
throw0101c 4y ago
> Rockefeller's wealth can be seen 100 years later, in forms that no creature comfort can surpass: media and political power, generations of rich and powerful children, and countless buildings and institutions named after his family. Calvin Coolidge was US President from 1923 to 1929, which would have been a powerful position to have. And yet this influential individual could do nothing when his son got sick: > The general story is well-known: while playing lawn tennis with his brother on the White House grounds, sixteen-year-old Calvin, Jr. developed a blister atop the third toe of his right foot. Before long, the boy began to feel ill and ran a fever. Signs of a blood infection appeared, but despite doctors’ best efforts, young Calvin, Jr. was dead within a week. * https://coolidgefoundation.org/blog/the-medical-context-of-calvin-jr-s-untimely-death/ https://coolidgefoundation.org/blog/the-medical-context-of-c... This is because antibiotics were not yet invented/discovered. There are things that even money and power and influence cannot help with.

derekp7 4y ago

But would you give up all your access to anything modern, for the rest of your life, in order to have the power and influence that Rockefeller had? Primitive medical treatment, limited communications to others that aren't in your vicinity, no modern entertainment? Example: Last year I went to my doctor, who informed me (based on a readout from a machine that analyzed a blood sample) that I needed to exercise more, lose weight, and change my diet in certain aspects in order to live a bit longer (I had high cholesterol). And this year at my annual checkup I found out my changes worked, and cholesterol is way down. This is something that wouldn't be knowable back in Rockefeller's time.

woodruffw 4y ago
Yes, in a heartbeat. Besides, the man lived to 97, and by 1916 the majority of excess deaths happened by early childhood. (Also, why do we talk about 1916 like they didn't have instantaneous communication? They'd been telegraphing across the country for nearly 60 years by that point! It certainly isn't text messaging, but I think I'd survive.)
gloryjulio 4y ago
Lucky for u to be still able to afford the doctor. Also lots of ppl don't have shelter security. Many are just one incident or bad luck away from being homeless.
dismantlethesun 4y ago
> But would you give up all your access to anything modern, for the rest of your life, in order to have the power and influence that Rockefeller had? [...] no modern entertainment? So let me get this straight, you would trade the power to shape the modern industrial world for the power to amongst other things, watch cat videos on demand? Imagine, the power to end segregation fifty years earlier than before, the power to bring women's rights to the forefront decades earlier, the power to stand up for the oppressed, the sick, and the poor and actually have the elites in government and industry listen to you? To give that up so one can have cellphones and video chat? It's possible that you do regard creature comforts to be of primary importance, but I'd ask you to reconsider. Rockefeller lived in the 1900s, not the Bronze Age. It's not such a downgrade from the current era that one should discount all that you can do with the power of being the richest person in the world. Don't you have any social causes you support?
- Pigalowda 4y ago
  So you’re saying this scenario is like time travel? To be rich as Rockefeller in his time but still have your current brain?
  - dismantlethesun 4y ago
    Basically, otherwise what's the point? You'll just be a different person in a different time.
hackeraccount 4y ago
Try getting around without a real toothbrush. Or toilet paper. That's probably 80% of Rockefeller's life.

rmbyrro 4y ago

Only a fool would trade modern life for the mentioned "power". Best thing today is: I can ditch the "power struggle" stuff and live a happy, healthy and fulfilling life. Unless I fall for the mental manipulations used to draw people as pawns into "power struggles".

cykros 4y ago
Except that if your elected officials decide to act in a way that would jeopardize your creature comforts, you can...tweet about it? Meanwhile, he'd just get new officials installed, and ensure that he maintained his comfort. See the difference?
- rmbyrro 4y ago
  I don't use Twitter, I chose to be happy
pgcj_poster 4y ago
If you can have a happy life without thinking about power struggles, it's because you were born on the winning team.

throw0101c 4y ago

> Rockefeller's wealth can be seen 100 years later, in forms that no creature comfort can surpass: media and political power, generations of rich and powerful children, and countless buildings and institutions named after his family. Calvin Coolidge was US President from 1923 to 1929, which would have been a powerful position to have. And yet this influential individual could do nothing when his son got sick: > The general story is well-known: while playing lawn tennis with his brother on the White House grounds, sixteen-year-old Calvin, Jr. developed a blister atop the third toe of his right foot. Before long, the boy began to feel ill and ran a fever. Signs of a blood infection appeared, but despite doctors’ best efforts, young Calvin, Jr. was dead within a week. * https://coolidgefoundation.org/blog/the-medical-context-of-calvin-jr-s-untimely-death/ https://coolidgefoundation.org/blog/the-medical-context-of-c... This is because antibiotics were not yet invented/discovered. There are things that even money and power and influence cannot help with.