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It's worth keeping in mind, in the context of police complaints about underfunding in the article, that the LAPD's budget is literally more than 50% of LA's ent

It's worth keeping in mind, in the context of police complaints about underfunding in the article, that the LAPD's budget is literally more than 50% of LA's entire city budget. They have nearly 10,000 officers.

winternett 4y ago
The problematic realization is that as we all get taxed at higher rates than every we're continually met with political and police leadership constantly acting overwhelmed and out of options in enforcing the very same laws they diligently enforce on those of us who can afford to pay the fines. Out neighborhoods are less safe now, but we pay for protection that only works against us. In many states the speed limits are being lowered well below reasonable levels and speed cameras are deployed to opportunistically capitalize on citizens, rather than deploying officers on streets to monitor for other offenses that go unchecked... The worst part still being that we're paying outrageously high income and other taxes. Eventually people will start to ask what the purpose of high taxes are for, and why becoming a police officer is more and more of a desk job than being on streets.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  What's this about speed limits being lowered? I find that speed limits seem dangerously high in a lot of (non-highway) areas.
tptacek 4y ago
Hold on a second. LAPD might be more than 50% of the budget of some Los Angeles taxing body. But --- this comes up over and over again in these discussions --- most municipalities have multiple taxing bodies. Defund advocates were all over my town claiming that the majority of our money was going to the police. But of course that wasn't true; it was a big portion of the village budget, but 2/3 of our property taxes funded school districts, which are separate taxing bodies. Are you sure LAPD is >50% of taxes paid by LA residents? Or is it just >50% of the budget of some taxing body that is essentially just "police, fire, and sewers"? It would be pretty shocking if LAPD was actually 50% of all Los Angeles spending. It seems pretty unlikely. Compare "Los Angeles public schools budget" to "LAPD budget" in search results.
- tomcam 4y ago
  23%: see page 2 of https://ceo.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022-23-Final-Adopted-Budget-Charts-v2.pdf https://ceo.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022-23-...
  - bscphil 4y ago
    23% seems shockingly high to the point that I wish activists would get the number right so that the story wouldn't be "activists heavily overstate how much of your tax dollars go to police" and instead "a shockingly high portion of your tax dollars go to police".
    - tptacek 4y ago
      This percentage doesn't mean anything; it's a fraction of a single taxing body. You need the percentage across all taxing bodies.
      - bscphil 4y ago
        Well, it's certainly confusing. But LA County isn't the only source of funding for the police either. The city appears to contribute ~1.9B a year out of a 10.5B budget in discretionary police spending. https://cao.lacity.org/budget20-21/2020-21Budget_Summary.pdf https://cao.lacity.org/budget20-21/2020-21Budget_Summary.pdf My understanding is that if you include non-discretionary spending (pensions etc) that number goes up significantly.
        tptacek 4y ago
        Let me just say that I don't doubt LAPD is too expensive. I'm just saying, if we're making assessments based on percentages, those percentages only make sense in the context of all taxing bodies. Observing that something takes up 23% (or 51%) of a single taxing body doesn't mean anything at all; it just establishes that particular taxing body owns the LAPD.
      - stonogo 4y ago
EGreg 4y ago
Also NYPD In fact NYC rents them out to other countries
acchow 4y ago
> 50% of LA’s entire city budget You have a citation for this? A quick google reveals LA’s city budget to be 11.8bn while LAPD budget is around 2bn
mc32 4y ago
Let me just say, I don't want to think what crime and violence in LA would be with fewer police... It says something about our society that we need that much police to keep us from committing more crime and violence against each other.
- mensetmanusman 4y ago
  About half of kids grow up in broken families today compared to 50 years ago. I’m surprised it’s going as well as it is.

winternett 4y ago

The problematic realization is that as we all get taxed at higher rates than every we're continually met with political and police leadership constantly acting overwhelmed and out of options in enforcing the very same laws they diligently enforce on those of us who can afford to pay the fines. Out neighborhoods are less safe now, but we pay for protection that only works against us. In many states the speed limits are being lowered well below reasonable levels and speed cameras are deployed to opportunistically capitalize on citizens, rather than deploying officers on streets to monitor for other offenses that go unchecked... The worst part still being that we're paying outrageously high income and other taxes. Eventually people will start to ask what the purpose of high taxes are for, and why becoming a police officer is more and more of a desk job than being on streets.

nerdponx 4y ago
What's this about speed limits being lowered? I find that speed limits seem dangerously high in a lot of (non-highway) areas.

tptacek 4y ago

Hold on a second. LAPD might be more than 50% of the budget of some Los Angeles taxing body. But --- this comes up over and over again in these discussions --- most municipalities have multiple taxing bodies. Defund advocates were all over my town claiming that the majority of our money was going to the police. But of course that wasn't true; it was a big portion of the village budget, but 2/3 of our property taxes funded school districts, which are separate taxing bodies. Are you sure LAPD is >50% of taxes paid by LA residents? Or is it just >50% of the budget of some taxing body that is essentially just "police, fire, and sewers"? It would be pretty shocking if LAPD was actually 50% of all Los Angeles spending. It seems pretty unlikely. Compare "Los Angeles public schools budget" to "LAPD budget" in search results.

tomcam 4y ago
23%: see page 2 of https://ceo.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022-23-Final-Adopted-Budget-Charts-v2.pdf https://ceo.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/2022-23-...
- bscphil 4y ago
  23% seems shockingly high to the point that I wish activists would get the number right so that the story wouldn't be "activists heavily overstate how much of your tax dollars go to police" and instead "a shockingly high portion of your tax dollars go to police".
  - tptacek 4y ago
    This percentage doesn't mean anything; it's a fraction of a single taxing body. You need the percentage across all taxing bodies.
    - bscphil 4y ago
      Well, it's certainly confusing. But LA County isn't the only source of funding for the police either. The city appears to contribute ~1.9B a year out of a 10.5B budget in discretionary police spending. https://cao.lacity.org/budget20-21/2020-21Budget_Summary.pdf https://cao.lacity.org/budget20-21/2020-21Budget_Summary.pdf My understanding is that if you include non-discretionary spending (pensions etc) that number goes up significantly.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        Let me just say that I don't doubt LAPD is too expensive. I'm just saying, if we're making assessments based on percentages, those percentages only make sense in the context of all taxing bodies. Observing that something takes up 23% (or 51%) of a single taxing body doesn't mean anything at all; it just establishes that particular taxing body owns the LAPD.
    - stonogo 4y ago

EGreg 4y ago

Also NYPD In fact NYC rents them out to other countries

acchow 4y ago

> 50% of LA’s entire city budget You have a citation for this? A quick google reveals LA’s city budget to be 11.8bn while LAPD budget is around 2bn

mc32 4y ago

Let me just say, I don't want to think what crime and violence in LA would be with fewer police... It says something about our society that we need that much police to keep us from committing more crime and violence against each other.

mensetmanusman 4y ago
About half of kids grow up in broken families today compared to 50 years ago. I’m surprised it’s going as well as it is.