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Jung and Buridan’s Ass: Jung on Making Good Choices (2016)

47 points by yamrzou 4y ago

koof 4y ago
Most recent snapshot on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20221127025706/https://jungiancenter.org/jung-and-buridans-ass-jung-on-making-good-choices/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221127025706/https://jungiance...
black_13 4y ago
JohnCClarke 4y ago
Flies (100k neurons), when trapped, will fly upwards and toward the light until they die of exhaustion. Exactly like that ass that cannot decide which way to go. Bees (500k neurons) have the self awareness to get bored. After a few minutes of flying upward and towards the light they set off in a random direction. Then they repeat the cycle until they escape. As ever, science beats philosphy.
- mjklin 4y ago
  “If you place in a bottle half a dozen bees and the same number of flies, and lay the bottle down horizontally, with its base to the window, you will find that the bees will persist, till they die of exhaustion or hunger, in their endeavor to discover an issue through the glass; while the flies, in less than two minutes, will all have sallied forth through the neck on the opposite side.... It is their [the bees'] love of light, it is their very intelligence, that is their undoing in this experiment. They evidently imagine that the issue from every prison must be there where the light shines clearest and they act in accordance, and persist in too logical action. To them glass is a supernatural mystery they never have met in nature; they have had no experience of this suddenly impenetrable atmosphere and, the greater their intelligence, the more inadmissible, more incomprehensible, will the strange obstacle appear. Whereas the featherbrained flies, careless of logic as of the enigma of crystal, disregarding the call of the light, flutter wildly hither and thither, and meeting here the good fortune that often waits on the simple, who find salvation there where the wiser will perish, necessarily end by discovering the friendly opening that restores their liberty to them.” — Maurice Maeterlinck
  - beesorflies 4y ago
    I searched for any paper detailing an experiment involving bees, flies and bottles but found none. I've never seen bees following light like moths, but I'm not sure I've seen flies doing the same either. Wouldn't bees eventually ignore light and try to find the hive?
    - mjklin 4y ago
      This passage was from Maeterlinck’s The Life of the Bee, 1913. I’m no expert, I just remembered this quote.
kayo_20211030 4y ago
"voiceover dream". Seriously?
- Psyladine 4y ago
  Successful people often attribute breakthroughs or revelations with banal origins: the archetypal shower thought, musings during a commute, taking a walk, or even taking a bath. These all represent the mind churning away in down-time; why should dreams be any different a medium?

47 points by yamrzou 4y ago

koof 4y ago

Most recent snapshot on archive.org: https://web.archive.org/web/20221127025706/https://jungiancenter.org/jung-and-buridans-ass-jung-on-making-good-choices/ https://web.archive.org/web/20221127025706/https://jungiance...

black_13 4y ago

JohnCClarke 4y ago

Flies (100k neurons), when trapped, will fly upwards and toward the light until they die of exhaustion. Exactly like that ass that cannot decide which way to go. Bees (500k neurons) have the self awareness to get bored. After a few minutes of flying upward and towards the light they set off in a random direction. Then they repeat the cycle until they escape. As ever, science beats philosphy.

mjklin 4y ago
“If you place in a bottle half a dozen bees and the same number of flies, and lay the bottle down horizontally, with its base to the window, you will find that the bees will persist, till they die of exhaustion or hunger, in their endeavor to discover an issue through the glass; while the flies, in less than two minutes, will all have sallied forth through the neck on the opposite side.... It is their [the bees'] love of light, it is their very intelligence, that is their undoing in this experiment. They evidently imagine that the issue from every prison must be there where the light shines clearest and they act in accordance, and persist in too logical action. To them glass is a supernatural mystery they never have met in nature; they have had no experience of this suddenly impenetrable atmosphere and, the greater their intelligence, the more inadmissible, more incomprehensible, will the strange obstacle appear. Whereas the featherbrained flies, careless of logic as of the enigma of crystal, disregarding the call of the light, flutter wildly hither and thither, and meeting here the good fortune that often waits on the simple, who find salvation there where the wiser will perish, necessarily end by discovering the friendly opening that restores their liberty to them.” — Maurice Maeterlinck
- beesorflies 4y ago
  I searched for any paper detailing an experiment involving bees, flies and bottles but found none. I've never seen bees following light like moths, but I'm not sure I've seen flies doing the same either. Wouldn't bees eventually ignore light and try to find the hive?
  - mjklin 4y ago
    This passage was from Maeterlinck’s The Life of the Bee, 1913. I’m no expert, I just remembered this quote.

kayo_20211030 4y ago

"voiceover dream". Seriously?

Psyladine 4y ago
Successful people often attribute breakthroughs or revelations with banal origins: the archetypal shower thought, musings during a commute, taking a walk, or even taking a bath. These all represent the mind churning away in down-time; why should dreams be any different a medium?