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Quantum computers are a science in the same way all of mathematics is a science. In math, you create a set of axioms and build logical structures on top of them

Quantum computers are a science in the same way all of mathematics is a science. In math, you create a set of axioms and build logical structures on top of them. In quantum computing, the existence of a qubit and its operations are the axioms. Trying to coin a meaningless phrase like “design science” and only mentioning math indirectly via Arabic numerals seems wrong.

sidlls 4y ago
This seems inaccurate. Engineering isn't a branch of mathematics: it relies on empirical results ("observations") and theory from physics (which also is empirical). Mathematics is not science. Engineering is science. Engineering (huge simplification, here) is essentially one experiment after another.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  No, the parent is exactly correct. Research in quantum computing has been mostly mathematical, and it predated any practical development of useful physical implementations of quantum computing. Quantum computing as a field does not depend on empirical results any more than study of Turing machines depends on properties of physical tapes.
- coef2 4y ago
  I thought neither mathematics nor engineering is strictly science. Engineering utilizes scientific knowledge to solve complex problems, but its purpose isn't to make scientific discoveries through hypothesis testing. It's interesting, though, that new artificial scientific disciplines (e.g., theory of how quantum computing works) occasionally spin out of engineering projects.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - rishflab 4y ago
    Agreed, engineering is about building stuff, not making discoveries about how the universe/existence works. Engineering often results in scientific discoveries but this is incidental.
    - ddingus 4y ago
      Science is about basic understanding. Monkey see, monkey do. Input A yields outcome B. We get that understanding this way: https://youtu.be/EYPapE-3FRw https://youtu.be/EYPapE-3FRw I love that whole series of lectures. They are his Cornell introduction to physics lectures and are a gold mine of basic scientific type thinking. So far, science has not increased our knowledge of truth. That's damn tough to come by. What it has done is very significantly expanded our understanding of the world. Our theories are far more predictive in far more contexts than ever! But, that is it! Monkey see, monkey do. Engineering is all about applying that understanding to solve problems in robust, efficient, safe ways.
msla 4y ago
Mathematics isn't a science because it's deductive: It has absolute truths, and ways to derive new truths from those truths, recursively. Science, on the other hand, is empirical and thus inductive, and thus has no access to truth (problem of induction) and can only improve models based on observation. Science uses mathematics to work out the implications of precise prediction-generators (often called laws) and check them for logical consistency, but mathematics itself has nothing to say about any world outside of the one generated by its axioms.
- halpmeh 4y ago
  The article uses Turing machines as an example of computer science so the author clearly has a definition of science that includes deductive mathematics.
  - alex_smart 4y ago
    I don't quite agree. The essential piece that transforms the study of Turing machines from mathematics into science is the Church-Turing thesis. And the Church-Turng thesis that is not deductive in any sense of the word.
    - halpmeh 4y ago
      I agree the Church-Turing thesis is why we care about Turing machines, but to say that the study of Turing machines is a science because of the Church-Turing thesis is like saying “it’s a science because it has applications.” Anyway, bringing this back to QC. It is believed that algorithms exist that can be computed by a QC that cannot feasibly be done by a classical computer, so QC also meets the ”deductive mathematical definition with applicable characteristics” bar as well.
      - alex_smart 4y ago
        The Church-Turing thesis is what makes makes a result about Turning machines a theory about the empirical world rather than mere facts about a simplistic mathematical model of computation. So, the point is more like - "it's a science because it is an empirical observation about the natural world".
ianai 4y ago
That sounds like mathematics and specifically geometry. Maybe that was the term OP seeks.
roywiggins 4y ago
> In math, you create a set of axioms and build logical structures on top of them. As a practical matter a great deal of mathematics was and is done prior to being axiomatized.
rishflab 4y ago
Mathematics isn’t a science, it seperate thing entirely. Science is about trying to understand how the real world works. Make falsifiable hypothesis then do repeatable experiment do will either prove or disprove hypothesis. Computer science isn’t really a science either. It should be classified as a branch of mathematics.

sidlls 4y ago

This seems inaccurate. Engineering isn't a branch of mathematics: it relies on empirical results ("observations") and theory from physics (which also is empirical). Mathematics is not science. Engineering is science. Engineering (huge simplification, here) is essentially one experiment after another.

xyzzyz 4y ago
No, the parent is exactly correct. Research in quantum computing has been mostly mathematical, and it predated any practical development of useful physical implementations of quantum computing. Quantum computing as a field does not depend on empirical results any more than study of Turing machines depends on properties of physical tapes.
coef2 4y ago
I thought neither mathematics nor engineering is strictly science. Engineering utilizes scientific knowledge to solve complex problems, but its purpose isn't to make scientific discoveries through hypothesis testing. It's interesting, though, that new artificial scientific disciplines (e.g., theory of how quantum computing works) occasionally spin out of engineering projects.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- rishflab 4y ago
  Agreed, engineering is about building stuff, not making discoveries about how the universe/existence works. Engineering often results in scientific discoveries but this is incidental.
  - ddingus 4y ago
    Science is about basic understanding. Monkey see, monkey do. Input A yields outcome B. We get that understanding this way: https://youtu.be/EYPapE-3FRw https://youtu.be/EYPapE-3FRw I love that whole series of lectures. They are his Cornell introduction to physics lectures and are a gold mine of basic scientific type thinking. So far, science has not increased our knowledge of truth. That's damn tough to come by. What it has done is very significantly expanded our understanding of the world. Our theories are far more predictive in far more contexts than ever! But, that is it! Monkey see, monkey do. Engineering is all about applying that understanding to solve problems in robust, efficient, safe ways.

msla 4y ago

Mathematics isn't a science because it's deductive: It has absolute truths, and ways to derive new truths from those truths, recursively. Science, on the other hand, is empirical and thus inductive, and thus has no access to truth (problem of induction) and can only improve models based on observation. Science uses mathematics to work out the implications of precise prediction-generators (often called laws) and check them for logical consistency, but mathematics itself has nothing to say about any world outside of the one generated by its axioms.

halpmeh 4y ago
The article uses Turing machines as an example of computer science so the author clearly has a definition of science that includes deductive mathematics.
- alex_smart 4y ago
  I don't quite agree. The essential piece that transforms the study of Turing machines from mathematics into science is the Church-Turing thesis. And the Church-Turng thesis that is not deductive in any sense of the word.
  - halpmeh 4y ago
    I agree the Church-Turing thesis is why we care about Turing machines, but to say that the study of Turing machines is a science because of the Church-Turing thesis is like saying “it’s a science because it has applications.” Anyway, bringing this back to QC. It is believed that algorithms exist that can be computed by a QC that cannot feasibly be done by a classical computer, so QC also meets the ”deductive mathematical definition with applicable characteristics” bar as well.
    - alex_smart 4y ago
      The Church-Turing thesis is what makes makes a result about Turning machines a theory about the empirical world rather than mere facts about a simplistic mathematical model of computation. So, the point is more like - "it's a science because it is an empirical observation about the natural world".

ianai 4y ago

That sounds like mathematics and specifically geometry. Maybe that was the term OP seeks.

roywiggins 4y ago

> In math, you create a set of axioms and build logical structures on top of them. As a practical matter a great deal of mathematics was and is done prior to being axiomatized.

rishflab 4y ago

Mathematics isn’t a science, it seperate thing entirely. Science is about trying to understand how the real world works. Make falsifiable hypothesis then do repeatable experiment do will either prove or disprove hypothesis. Computer science isn’t really a science either. It should be classified as a branch of mathematics.