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Forcing equal access to markets is a limit on sovereignty (freedom). That's why the TPP got shut down. Equal access to markets in many cases just means total ec

Forcing equal access to markets is a limit on sovereignty (freedom). That's why the TPP got shut down. Equal access to markets in many cases just means total economic subjugation of weaker nations by commercial interests like the whole India colonial period.

rgbrenner 4y ago
Yeah sure… the worlds largest economy is too weak to import roughly 300b a year in goods to balance us/China trade. 300b/yr is enough to subjugate a 27 trillion/yr (gdp ppp) economy. rofl
- chrischen 4y ago
  My point is rather than deciding which economy is large enough to decide for itself how to tariff, you let everyone decide for themselves. And in fact this is how the world works by default, and even the US chooses selective tariffs… so what does it mean to selectively cry “fair trade” only when it benefits your local corporate interests? Think about the opposite of what you are suggesting… should China now start subsidizing US businesses by buying made in USA when they don’t have to? If we make good products, they have no choice but to buy it because their citizens will demand it.
  - rgbrenner 4y ago
    They agreed to wto rules when they joined. And your last sentence is wrong— Chinese are not free to buy us made goods if they think they are better. China places heavy tariffs and other protections on imports. Since you seem to be unaware.. that’s what you’re arguing for: the right of China to place heavy tariffs on foreign goods, while using wto rules to prevent other nations from doing the same to Chinese goods. Counties agree to wto rules so they can export more.. those rules apply in both directions. If China doesn’t like wto rules, they can withdraw and do as you say: everyone applies whatever tariffs they want on Chinese goods; and China does the same.
    - chrischen 4y ago
      Yes that is what I am arguing for… the right for sovereign nations to place tariffs. I mean, the US has tariffed Chinese goods as well now so it’s fair game. And if tariffs are so great why don’t countries do it all the time? Despite tariffs iPhones still sell well and take a majority of profits in China, because it’s a superior product. Tariffs are just a form of subsidy and subsidies protect companies but make them less competitive. Apple wouldn’t exist if America was protectionist.
zerocrates 4y ago
My (admittedly US-centric) understanding of the TPP's demise was that it simply found itself politically untenable in an time where globalization was very unpopular, and concerns about the influence of China were not top of mind. Both 2016 US major-party presidential candidates came out against it (though you could reasonably argue about whether Clinton really meant it). Ironically, speaking of freedom, the Libertarian candidate was the only one to support it officially.

rgbrenner 4y ago

Yeah sure… the worlds largest economy is too weak to import roughly 300b a year in goods to balance us/China trade. 300b/yr is enough to subjugate a 27 trillion/yr (gdp ppp) economy. rofl

chrischen 4y ago
My point is rather than deciding which economy is large enough to decide for itself how to tariff, you let everyone decide for themselves. And in fact this is how the world works by default, and even the US chooses selective tariffs… so what does it mean to selectively cry “fair trade” only when it benefits your local corporate interests? Think about the opposite of what you are suggesting… should China now start subsidizing US businesses by buying made in USA when they don’t have to? If we make good products, they have no choice but to buy it because their citizens will demand it.
- rgbrenner 4y ago
  They agreed to wto rules when they joined. And your last sentence is wrong— Chinese are not free to buy us made goods if they think they are better. China places heavy tariffs and other protections on imports. Since you seem to be unaware.. that’s what you’re arguing for: the right of China to place heavy tariffs on foreign goods, while using wto rules to prevent other nations from doing the same to Chinese goods. Counties agree to wto rules so they can export more.. those rules apply in both directions. If China doesn’t like wto rules, they can withdraw and do as you say: everyone applies whatever tariffs they want on Chinese goods; and China does the same.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Yes that is what I am arguing for… the right for sovereign nations to place tariffs. I mean, the US has tariffed Chinese goods as well now so it’s fair game. And if tariffs are so great why don’t countries do it all the time? Despite tariffs iPhones still sell well and take a majority of profits in China, because it’s a superior product. Tariffs are just a form of subsidy and subsidies protect companies but make them less competitive. Apple wouldn’t exist if America was protectionist.

zerocrates 4y ago

My (admittedly US-centric) understanding of the TPP's demise was that it simply found itself politically untenable in an time where globalization was very unpopular, and concerns about the influence of China were not top of mind. Both 2016 US major-party presidential candidates came out against it (though you could reasonably argue about whether Clinton really meant it). Ironically, speaking of freedom, the Libertarian candidate was the only one to support it officially.