3 ms·

To steelman you need to show the same standard would be applied to formal allies besides Israel. I’m very curious to hear about any examples. I haven’t been abl

by User23 4y ago

To steelman you need to show the same standard would be applied to formal allies besides Israel. I’m very curious to hear about any examples. I haven’t been able to find any. For example there doesn’t appear to be any action to restrict the Morocco boycott movement, despite their being the USA’s longest formal ally. Also, remember the risible anti-French boycotts during the Bush 2 administration because they weren’t enthusiastic about an obviously fake casus belli? France was and is an important formal ally of the USA and those boycotts would never be legislatively opposed.

luckylion 4y ago
Are there any formal allies that are primarily defined by ethnicity and are seeing boycotts against them (which often look very much like they're boycotting because of ethnicity, not political ideology, e.g. they wouldn't boycott others for doing the same)?
- sbaiddn 4y ago
  Italy, Japan, etc define their nationality through ethnicity (ius sangui). Greece defines nationality in a very convoluted way, but its basically trying to find ethnic Greeks. In fact nationality through ethnicity is the norm. What isn't common is that every country but Israel is being pressured to change their nationality laws.
  - luckylion 4y ago
    I haven't seen calls for boycott against Italy, Japan or Greece, especially not because of the ethnicity of the inhabitants. I wonder if we'd see it if there was a sizable Anti-Italian movement in the US.
    - sbaiddn 4y ago
      You asked if other countries have ethnic nationality, and I pointed out that most do. I added that, while I read The Economist and other "thought leader" rags call for a liberation of Japan, Italy, etc nationality law, I have never read any respectable editorial arguing the same for Israel. I did not mention anything about boycotts. but, since you asked, Japan and Italy were both boycotted (blockaded, actually) in the 30s for occupying territories and putting settlers there.
- psyfi 4y ago
  Israel is not defined by ethnicity, I can get Israeli citizenship if I claim that I have converted to Judaism. If we go further with this reasoning we should also shield Saudi Arabia, UAE, Vatican City, Maldives, etc.. from boycott.
  - User23 4y ago
    > Israel is not defined by ethnicity, I can get Israeli citizenship if I claim that I have converted to Judaism. Don’t they only accept ultra-orthodox conversions?[1] Good luck with that. Jewish conversion is much more akin to a tribal adoption into the community than it is to conversion in the other Abrahamic faiths. For Christianity, depending on the denomination, conversion can be as little as saying you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. And in Islam literally all you have to do is sincerely say the shahada and you’re Muslim. Edit: [1] looks like there was just recently a supreme court case permitting non orthodox conversions, but I expect the Knesset will overturn it. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-top-court-recognizes-reform-conservative-conversions/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-top-court-recognizes-r...
lolbert3 4y ago

by User23 4y ago

luckylion 4y ago

Are there any formal allies that are primarily defined by ethnicity and are seeing boycotts against them (which often look very much like they're boycotting because of ethnicity, not political ideology, e.g. they wouldn't boycott others for doing the same)?

sbaiddn 4y ago
Italy, Japan, etc define their nationality through ethnicity (ius sangui). Greece defines nationality in a very convoluted way, but its basically trying to find ethnic Greeks. In fact nationality through ethnicity is the norm. What isn't common is that every country but Israel is being pressured to change their nationality laws.
- luckylion 4y ago
  I haven't seen calls for boycott against Italy, Japan or Greece, especially not because of the ethnicity of the inhabitants. I wonder if we'd see it if there was a sizable Anti-Italian movement in the US.
  - sbaiddn 4y ago
    You asked if other countries have ethnic nationality, and I pointed out that most do. I added that, while I read The Economist and other "thought leader" rags call for a liberation of Japan, Italy, etc nationality law, I have never read any respectable editorial arguing the same for Israel. I did not mention anything about boycotts. but, since you asked, Japan and Italy were both boycotted (blockaded, actually) in the 30s for occupying territories and putting settlers there.
psyfi 4y ago
Israel is not defined by ethnicity, I can get Israeli citizenship if I claim that I have converted to Judaism. If we go further with this reasoning we should also shield Saudi Arabia, UAE, Vatican City, Maldives, etc.. from boycott.
- User23 4y ago
  > Israel is not defined by ethnicity, I can get Israeli citizenship if I claim that I have converted to Judaism. Don’t they only accept ultra-orthodox conversions?[1] Good luck with that. Jewish conversion is much more akin to a tribal adoption into the community than it is to conversion in the other Abrahamic faiths. For Christianity, depending on the denomination, conversion can be as little as saying you accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. And in Islam literally all you have to do is sincerely say the shahada and you’re Muslim. Edit: [1] looks like there was just recently a supreme court case permitting non orthodox conversions, but I expect the Knesset will overturn it. https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-top-court-recognizes-reform-conservative-conversions/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israels-top-court-recognizes-r...

lolbert3 4y ago