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I’ve lost all respect for ACLU. In 2014 they were warning against forced vaccinations, and then during Covid they changed their mind and were all for firing pub

by nxm 4y ago

I’ve lost all respect for ACLU. In 2014 they were warning against forced vaccinations, and then during Covid they changed their mind and were all for firing public and private employees if they refused the jab. They’re just an extension of the left’s ideology at this point.

version_five 4y ago
For those unaware, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression has to some extent taken up the mantle for causes that the ACLU abandoned after being ideologically compromised. https://www.thefire.org/ https://www.thefire.org/
- greenyoda 4y ago
  FIRE seems to agree with the ACLU on this issue: https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-asks-supreme-court-uphold-first-amendment-right-boycott https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-asks-supreme-court-uphold-... > Despite the clear precedent holding a boycott constitutes protected expression, the Eighth Circuit ruled against the Times. ... Today, FIRE and the Forum for Constitutional Rights filed an amicus curiae — “friend of the court” — brief in support of the Arkansas Times’ request for the Supreme Court to hear its case.
Spivak 4y ago
You’re ignoring the part where in 2014 they specifically said that if an individual not being vaccinated causes harm to others then mandating they be vaccinated is sometimes necessary and likely constitutional. It’s the same as other diseases, the government normally can’t jail you without trial but if you have smallpox you bet you’ll be quarantined against your will. Fast forward to 2021 and that’s the reasoning they use. I don’t really care if you disagree with how they view the situation — that’s fine. But the ACLU is logically consistent on this issue.
elefanten 4y ago
They’ve also literally promoted banning books. The ACLU made its name defending the free speech rights of despicable parties on principle. Because, among other reasons, allowing exceptions to the protection of civil liberties terminally all-but-guarantees that such exceptions will be abused in unjust ways. But there is no longer any principle they stand on. Politically compromised and merely self-perpetuating for the cynical insiders willing to bend the machinery to their selfish ends. Entropy has taken the ACLU, and it’s just a cancer on the body politic now.
- paulgb 4y ago
  > They’ve also literally promoted banning books. Which ones? Was it the ACLU as an organization, or an employee of the ACLU?
  - rhcom2 4y ago
    The ACLU wants to keep intelligent design out of schools [1]. ID is something the Supreme Court upheld as religious [2] 1. https://www.catholicleague.org/the-book-banning-aclu/ https://www.catholicleague.org/the-book-banning-aclu/ 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_Schoo... Fighting to stop censorship while also fighting to keep religious texts out of the public school system isn't contradictory to me. Also seems a little disingenuous when the religious right in the US does the vast majority of book banning.
    - paulgb 4y ago
      > Fighting to stop censorship while also fighting to keep religious texts out of the public school system isn't contradictory to me. Right, and I think the Catholic League’s framing is disingenuous. From the opinion[1], the ACLU wasn’t trying to ban the textbook, they were saying that teachers shouldn’t be compelled to issue a canned statement to their class which promotes a religious text as an alternative to their scientific curriculum. [1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/asset_upload_file577_23137.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/asse...
jayknight 4y ago
Are you taking about the 2008 report[1] where the ACLU argued against a law that would make refusing a vaccine a misdemeanor. I don't think anyone was pushing for that during Covid. During Covid they were saying employers and schools should be allowed to require them, but not making it criminal to refuse it. [1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_report.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_...

by nxm 4y ago

version_five 4y ago

For those unaware, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression has to some extent taken up the mantle for causes that the ACLU abandoned after being ideologically compromised. https://www.thefire.org/ https://www.thefire.org/

greenyoda 4y ago
FIRE seems to agree with the ACLU on this issue: https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-asks-supreme-court-uphold-first-amendment-right-boycott https://www.thefire.org/news/fire-asks-supreme-court-uphold-... > Despite the clear precedent holding a boycott constitutes protected expression, the Eighth Circuit ruled against the Times. ... Today, FIRE and the Forum for Constitutional Rights filed an amicus curiae — “friend of the court” — brief in support of the Arkansas Times’ request for the Supreme Court to hear its case.

Spivak 4y ago

You’re ignoring the part where in 2014 they specifically said that if an individual not being vaccinated causes harm to others then mandating they be vaccinated is sometimes necessary and likely constitutional. It’s the same as other diseases, the government normally can’t jail you without trial but if you have smallpox you bet you’ll be quarantined against your will. Fast forward to 2021 and that’s the reasoning they use. I don’t really care if you disagree with how they view the situation — that’s fine. But the ACLU is logically consistent on this issue.

elefanten 4y ago

They’ve also literally promoted banning books. The ACLU made its name defending the free speech rights of despicable parties on principle. Because, among other reasons, allowing exceptions to the protection of civil liberties terminally all-but-guarantees that such exceptions will be abused in unjust ways. But there is no longer any principle they stand on. Politically compromised and merely self-perpetuating for the cynical insiders willing to bend the machinery to their selfish ends. Entropy has taken the ACLU, and it’s just a cancer on the body politic now.

paulgb 4y ago
> They’ve also literally promoted banning books. Which ones? Was it the ACLU as an organization, or an employee of the ACLU?
- rhcom2 4y ago
  The ACLU wants to keep intelligent design out of schools [1]. ID is something the Supreme Court upheld as religious [2] 1. https://www.catholicleague.org/the-book-banning-aclu/ https://www.catholicleague.org/the-book-banning-aclu/ 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwards_v._Aguillard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_School_District https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitzmiller_v._Dover_Area_Schoo... Fighting to stop censorship while also fighting to keep religious texts out of the public school system isn't contradictory to me. Also seems a little disingenuous when the religious right in the US does the vast majority of book banning.
  - paulgb 4y ago
    > Fighting to stop censorship while also fighting to keep religious texts out of the public school system isn't contradictory to me. Right, and I think the Catholic League’s framing is disingenuous. From the opinion[1], the ACLU wasn’t trying to ban the textbook, they were saying that teachers shouldn’t be compelled to issue a canned statement to their class which promotes a religious text as an alternative to their scientific curriculum. [1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/asset_upload_file577_23137.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/asse...

jayknight 4y ago

Are you taking about the 2008 report[1] where the ACLU argued against a law that would make refusing a vaccine a misdemeanor. I don't think anyone was pushing for that during Covid. During Covid they were saying employers and schools should be allowed to require them, but not making it criminal to refuse it. [1] https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_report.pdf https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/privacy/pemic_...