8 ms·

> just move where they are publicly happy to hire, or change of field https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33518496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=335184

by jstx1 4y ago

> just move where they are publicly happy to hire, or change of field https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33518496 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33518496 You're describing big and difficult changes so obviously they won't be most people's first choice. I also have no idea which fields you think are willing to hire so many differently-qualified and differently-experienced people right now, and are offering remotely similar compensation.

hinata08 4y ago
I'm not saying it's easy. I have myself lost a lot in this process, and it took about two years to learn a new skill set. But now it's over, I realize I'm maybe better off than if I had a job in my field back then.
hinata08 4y ago
if you can't get a new field, go to a new city Places like the Netherlands, Barcelona, Munich, Montréal, and Nice are still struggling to hire IT workers, for example.
- jstx1 4y ago
  Sure, I'll ask my wife to quit her job even though her income is the only one we have right now, I'll explain to my children that they'll have to leave school and never see their friends again, we'll say goodbye to all of our family and friends, we'll leave our entire support network, and we'll spend a lot of money to move to a country halfway across the world where none of us speak the language and we don't know anyone because this week Berlin happens to have more open job postings on LinkedIn than San Francisco.
- gregjor 4y ago
  And they will continue to struggle. Getting a work permit and visa for a laid-off US citizen, or (worse) a laid off H1-B worker, presents some huge barriers. Americans can't just fly to the Netherlands or Barcelona or even Montreal and take a job. And the language problem -- few Americans speak a second language.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    >Americans can't just fly to the Netherlands or Barcelona or even Montreal and take a job they pretty much can, they're lacking so many ppl that everyone can have a visa > And the language problem it doesn't exist. SW companies and large companies work in English anyway, because they work across borders. Several engineers around me have no proficiency at all in anything but English, and we're spending more time introducing them to local politics and folklore than language I have studied and worked with ppl from the whole world but North America. I almost got hired in Munich without speaking german. And former classmates work in all of these places, despite initially not speaking the language either Btw, you can't say you have worked if you haven't been in some online meeting with French ppl struggling to speak in English
    - gregjor 4y ago
      Unless you know something I don't, foreigners need to get a work permit and usually a residency permit or long-stay visa to take a job. They need to find a job and get the employer to sponsor the visa/permit. Most countries have age and education requirements depending on the kind of job, i.e. Netherlands and Canada skilled worker visas. The process can take months. Some countries will only issue work permits and visas to foreigners before they enter the country. Looking for work while visiting on a tourist visa or visa waiver may violate the terms of the tourist visa/visa waiver, depending on the country. Many countries explicitly forbid using a tourist visa (like the 90 day Schengen visa waiver U.S. citizens get on arrival) for purposes of employment or seeking employment. Likewise tourists from Spain, Netherlands, Canada, etc. cannot come to the US as tourists and look for jobs. Enforcement of that rule probably weak, granted. American citizens taking jobs in other countries will get paid lower salaries than they would for the same job in the US. Sometimes much lower. And US citizens must still pay US taxes regardless of where the live and work. US medical insurance rarely covers care overseas. The salary differential alone probably explains why many more European and Canadian citizens look for jobs in the US, while relatively few Americans work for foreign companies overseas. Add in the hassles and restrictions with a spouse or partner, children, pets. In the workplace English may rule, but Americans will struggle with language in every other context. Americans who have lived/worked overseas frequently report language problems as their reason for not staying. Probably no accident that the UK and Canada attract the most American foreign employees. I have US citizenship and have worked in the UK with a work permit, which cost the employer a significant amount to obtain and required a lot of paperwork. I had to wait in the US for the visa. I have freelanced from many countries for US companies and met Americans working or trying to work overseas, the process ranges from easy to impossible, depending on the person's skills, education, connections, patience. I know that very few foreign jobs pay as much as the same job in the US, especially in tech/software.

by jstx1 4y ago

hinata08 4y ago

I'm not saying it's easy. I have myself lost a lot in this process, and it took about two years to learn a new skill set. But now it's over, I realize I'm maybe better off than if I had a job in my field back then.

hinata08 4y ago

if you can't get a new field, go to a new city Places like the Netherlands, Barcelona, Munich, Montréal, and Nice are still struggling to hire IT workers, for example.

jstx1 4y ago
Sure, I'll ask my wife to quit her job even though her income is the only one we have right now, I'll explain to my children that they'll have to leave school and never see their friends again, we'll say goodbye to all of our family and friends, we'll leave our entire support network, and we'll spend a lot of money to move to a country halfway across the world where none of us speak the language and we don't know anyone because this week Berlin happens to have more open job postings on LinkedIn than San Francisco.
gregjor 4y ago
And they will continue to struggle. Getting a work permit and visa for a laid-off US citizen, or (worse) a laid off H1-B worker, presents some huge barriers. Americans can't just fly to the Netherlands or Barcelona or even Montreal and take a job. And the language problem -- few Americans speak a second language.
- hinata08 4y ago
  >Americans can't just fly to the Netherlands or Barcelona or even Montreal and take a job they pretty much can, they're lacking so many ppl that everyone can have a visa > And the language problem it doesn't exist. SW companies and large companies work in English anyway, because they work across borders. Several engineers around me have no proficiency at all in anything but English, and we're spending more time introducing them to local politics and folklore than language I have studied and worked with ppl from the whole world but North America. I almost got hired in Munich without speaking german. And former classmates work in all of these places, despite initially not speaking the language either Btw, you can't say you have worked if you haven't been in some online meeting with French ppl struggling to speak in English
  - gregjor 4y ago
    Unless you know something I don't, foreigners need to get a work permit and usually a residency permit or long-stay visa to take a job. They need to find a job and get the employer to sponsor the visa/permit. Most countries have age and education requirements depending on the kind of job, i.e. Netherlands and Canada skilled worker visas. The process can take months. Some countries will only issue work permits and visas to foreigners before they enter the country. Looking for work while visiting on a tourist visa or visa waiver may violate the terms of the tourist visa/visa waiver, depending on the country. Many countries explicitly forbid using a tourist visa (like the 90 day Schengen visa waiver U.S. citizens get on arrival) for purposes of employment or seeking employment. Likewise tourists from Spain, Netherlands, Canada, etc. cannot come to the US as tourists and look for jobs. Enforcement of that rule probably weak, granted. American citizens taking jobs in other countries will get paid lower salaries than they would for the same job in the US. Sometimes much lower. And US citizens must still pay US taxes regardless of where the live and work. US medical insurance rarely covers care overseas. The salary differential alone probably explains why many more European and Canadian citizens look for jobs in the US, while relatively few Americans work for foreign companies overseas. Add in the hassles and restrictions with a spouse or partner, children, pets. In the workplace English may rule, but Americans will struggle with language in every other context. Americans who have lived/worked overseas frequently report language problems as their reason for not staying. Probably no accident that the UK and Canada attract the most American foreign employees. I have US citizenship and have worked in the UK with a work permit, which cost the employer a significant amount to obtain and required a lot of paperwork. I had to wait in the US for the visa. I have freelanced from many countries for US companies and met Americans working or trying to work overseas, the process ranges from easy to impossible, depending on the person's skills, education, connections, patience. I know that very few foreign jobs pay as much as the same job in the US, especially in tech/software.