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I participated in technical due diligence for a purchase order of huawei tech back in 2011 (was lte back then). Their tech was good but there is no way in hell

I participated in technical due diligence for a purchase order of huawei tech back in 2011 (was lte back then). Their tech was good but there is no way in hell there isn’t some kind of trick how cheap they were compared to the europeans (there were no americans at that point since motorola was kaput). Like it was basically free. There needs to be some kind of regulation when techniques like that are being played whether it’s security or just economic concerns

MichaelZuo 4y ago
Isn't it obvious why it's so much cheaper? Their pricing for market share and cutting costs wherever they can in terms of labour conditions. I don't see how spending many billions on R&D to develop the most intricately hidden backdoors in human history (that no one has been able to offer proof for) and eating that cost to deploy them when it will all become worthless the moment the first one is detected, makes any sense at all.
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  I’ve been to their headquarters in Shenzhen it certainly didn’t look like much was being saved on r&d… I’d say much likely explanation is either aggressive government subsidy to price out competition with maybe some mix of wielding political blackmail later on (a la what US is doing with its chip restrictions rn)
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless.
    - dilyevsky 4y ago
      People used to say same exact thing about russian gas
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        How does Russian gas relate to the fear of backdoors?
        ABeeSea 4y ago
        Reliance for critical infrastructure on a geopolitical enemy. Historians often site “The Great Illusion” which was written in 1909 and predicted there would be no more major or prolonged wars due to the new global and interconnected economy. Clearly that was wrong and yet the same argument keeps being made with regard to China. China has made it clear they consider “the West” as an enemy. We should not trust any infrastructure to them.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I still don't see a logical relation with my previous comment: "I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless." And your previous comment: "People used to say same exact thing about russian gas" I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia. One shipment of contaminated gas (?) is not going to have any major effects on the gas trade.
        dilyevsky 4y ago
        > I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia. Struggle no longer - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom-would-like-nord-stream-turbine-back-needs-documents-2022-08-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom...
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This did not affect the total amount of gas purchased from Russia. Even looking at just EU-Russia trade volumes, there wasn't a huge drop right after this happened. A commodity business with high transportation costs has different dynamics then from the electronics industry.
- lupire 4y ago
  "western" tech is made in the same factories.
  - ABeeSea 4y ago
    You mean the ones in the country of Taiwan?

MichaelZuo 4y ago

Isn't it obvious why it's so much cheaper? Their pricing for market share and cutting costs wherever they can in terms of labour conditions. I don't see how spending many billions on R&D to develop the most intricately hidden backdoors in human history (that no one has been able to offer proof for) and eating that cost to deploy them when it will all become worthless the moment the first one is detected, makes any sense at all.

dilyevsky 4y ago
I’ve been to their headquarters in Shenzhen it certainly didn’t look like much was being saved on r&d… I’d say much likely explanation is either aggressive government subsidy to price out competition with maybe some mix of wielding political blackmail later on (a la what US is doing with its chip restrictions rn)
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless.
  - dilyevsky 4y ago
    People used to say same exact thing about russian gas
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      How does Russian gas relate to the fear of backdoors?
      - ABeeSea 4y ago
        Reliance for critical infrastructure on a geopolitical enemy. Historians often site “The Great Illusion” which was written in 1909 and predicted there would be no more major or prolonged wars due to the new global and interconnected economy. Clearly that was wrong and yet the same argument keeps being made with regard to China. China has made it clear they consider “the West” as an enemy. We should not trust any infrastructure to them.
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        I still don't see a logical relation with my previous comment: "I don't see what they could possibly gain, all it would take is for one genuine case of a backdoor to be confirmed and then all that investment would be nearly worthless." And your previous comment: "People used to say same exact thing about russian gas" I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia. One shipment of contaminated gas (?) is not going to have any major effects on the gas trade.
        dilyevsky 4y ago
        > I'm struggling to find any analogous situation to a single verified breech of trust destroying billions of investments in the gas sector of Russia. Struggle no longer - https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom-would-like-nord-stream-turbine-back-needs-documents-2022-08-04/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/kremlin-says-gazprom...
        MichaelZuo 4y ago
        This did not affect the total amount of gas purchased from Russia. Even looking at just EU-Russia trade volumes, there wasn't a huge drop right after this happened. A commodity business with high transportation costs has different dynamics then from the electronics industry.
lupire 4y ago
"western" tech is made in the same factories.
- ABeeSea 4y ago
  You mean the ones in the country of Taiwan?