5 ms·

Sorry but that's delusional - riding in the rain, and especially when it's snowy/icy - is order of magnitude more dangerous - traction/breaking/reduced visibili

Sorry but that's delusional - riding in the rain, and especially when it's snowy/icy - is order of magnitude more dangerous - traction/breaking/reduced visibility.

Marsymars 4y ago
Studded tires work well enough that I’d be really surprised if it was an order of magnitude more dangerous on snow/ice with them.
tlaundal 4y ago
And the same applies to every other vehicle, but I suppose you would still get in a car on a rainy day? You adjust speed and cycling style to the conditions, and for winter cycling there are plenty of good options for studded tires. The Nordics have succeeded in making winter cycling a more common activity, and you might want to check out the "winter cycling capital of the world": Oulu, Finland.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  Last year a friend broke 2 ribs and forearm by slipping over some wet leaves on a bycicle - I don't see how that's comparable to a car. Also I don't have windshield wipers on my face (or windshield for that matter) - but maybe I'm just wired like that.
  - cuu508 4y ago
    > I don't see how that's comparable to a car. Yesterday, local news, a car crash with all three involved drivers dead.
    - moonchrome 4y ago
      By slipping on wet leaves ? I guess it could happen but how likely is it ? Mind sharing the link ?
      - cuu508 4y ago
        "in slippery conditions": https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/transport/snow-and-ice-make-driving-difficult-across-latvia.a484254/ https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/transport/snow-and-ice-ma... (It's only a one-sentence mention in the article. There were only a few more details in the local news: two semis, one passenger car. All three drivers dead, two people in hospital. No details on what exactly happened, who caused it.)
        moonchrome 4y ago
        And you think riding an ebike in those conditions on the road would not be suicide ? 2 wheels make you extremely sensitive to small traction loss - hitting a patch of wet leaves/gravel/mud/ice with a car tire is a nuisance at best - and a potential fatality on a ebike/motorcycle.
        cuu508 4y ago
        It would be a bad idea. And that specific road, even in good summer weather, I've had a truck pass me on my bike so close I could have touched it with a hand if not elbow. But my point is, while you're better protected in the car, with speed and kinetic energy the stakes go up. If they were three cyclists instead of three drivers in heavy vehicles on that road yesterday, they would likely all still be alive.
  - blacksmith_tb 4y ago
    My commute is 4mi each way in quite-rainy Portland, rain on my glasses isn't too much of a problem, though fine mist I need to wipe off occasionally. I haven't ever had any serious problems with road conditions (in ~20yr of bike commutes), though I do have to slow down / watch the turns until later in the winter when most of the leaves are out of the road.
  - GlacierFox 4y ago
    That's unfortunate. I seen that a family of four where crushed to death and burned alive in their Nissan X-Trail yesterday when it veered off the road on ice and hit a truck full of propane tanks.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Last year I sprained my wrist slipping on ice while walking to my car, but I never fell off my bike even though I live in a temperate rainforest. What should I learn from this one off incident?
  - TomSwirly 4y ago
    I'm 60, and I bike everywhere. I have a non-zero chance of getting into an accident, but on the other hand, I haven't been so fit in 30 years. My guess is that my expected lifespan is increased by this decision. (I would add that I live in a very bike-friendly city.) --- There's a further ethical calculation I would do, which is that using a car is wildly irresponsible giving that we are systematically eating through our resources and destroying our climate and with it our biosphere. (Electric cars are better, but still tremendously consumptive of resources.) So even if I were less safe and the fitness issue were less important, I would still choose not to use a car, like I have chosen for my entire life.
dghlsakjg 4y ago
Have you tried, or are you just speculating about me being delusional? As I said in my comment, I actually do this, and surprised myself with how practical it is in all but the absolute worse weather (there are about 7 days per year where my bike won’t work, but generally that means that it is dangerous driving conditions as well). I live in rural Canada. I’m no stranger to riding in snow, rain and darkness. I could equally say that it is delusional to allow minimally trained civilians access to multi ton vehicles with limited visibility, built in devices intended to distract powered by explosive liquids. But that system works as well.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  I used to own a motorcycle and I commute with a bycicle in ~mediteranian climate. The only two accidents I've ever had on a motorcycle were low speed manuvers in heavy rain when I got caught by a shower. On a bike just riding on a slippery road is terrible and wading through umbrellas, getting splashed by cars in traffic, rain in the eyes. Riding on two wheels makes you extremely exposed - ebikes are just shit motorcycles (especially self built ones) and have a higher accident rate statistics from what I can tell. If you're not aware how risky it is compared to a car you are you are being delusional.
  - marci 4y ago
    Unfortunately, there are some places where the whole city is delusional, like in Finland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU /s
    - tuatoru 4y ago
      It's more like the US is delusional. It was gaslit by General Motors in the 1940s and 1950s. (Yesterday I watched a youtube called "Retrofuturism", that turned out to be, nearly verbatim, an old propaganda piece by GM. It was only about using cars and roads, not about the future (i.e., our world) at all. Some parts were hilarious, but overall it was deeply depressing.)
  - 4y ago
TrueGeek 4y ago
Riding increases with proper infrastructure, even in areas with extremely bad weather. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU
olivermuty 4y ago
Hello, I come from the land up over As in I come from Norway and winter tires for bikes work just fine :)
Beltalowda 4y ago
> riding in the rain, and especially when it's snowy/icy - is order of magnitude more dangerous - traction/breaking/reduced visibility. Yes, it's more dangerous. No one said it's not. No one even mentioned safety until you brought it up yourself. If you want to bring up safety: great! Go for it! But no need to start calling people "delusional" right from the bat.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  But that's the worst part about bad weather - you have to ride much slower and be on high alert - so you're in shitty conditions for even longer - and ebike only makes that worse. For some reason people on ebikes don't realize that they are riding on a shitty motorcycle and how risky it is to remove speed restrictions/zip around traffic on those things - at least that's my impression of the few friends that really got into it. And the accident rate statistics seem to back my impressions.
  - Beltalowda 4y ago
    Sure, I understand your point; it's a perfectly reasonable. My gripe was with the "that's delusional".
Lutger 4y ago
Maybe if you don't have the infra, but here in the Netherlands its perfectly normal to do this.
0x457 4y ago
Tell that to people of Vietnam.

Sorry but that's delusional - riding in the rain, and especially when it's snowy/icy - is order of magnitude more dangerous - traction/breaking/reduced visibility.

Marsymars 4y ago

Studded tires work well enough that I’d be really surprised if it was an order of magnitude more dangerous on snow/ice with them.

tlaundal 4y ago

And the same applies to every other vehicle, but I suppose you would still get in a car on a rainy day? You adjust speed and cycling style to the conditions, and for winter cycling there are plenty of good options for studded tires. The Nordics have succeeded in making winter cycling a more common activity, and you might want to check out the "winter cycling capital of the world": Oulu, Finland.

moonchrome 4y ago
Last year a friend broke 2 ribs and forearm by slipping over some wet leaves on a bycicle - I don't see how that's comparable to a car. Also I don't have windshield wipers on my face (or windshield for that matter) - but maybe I'm just wired like that.
- cuu508 4y ago
  > I don't see how that's comparable to a car. Yesterday, local news, a car crash with all three involved drivers dead.
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    By slipping on wet leaves ? I guess it could happen but how likely is it ? Mind sharing the link ?
    - cuu508 4y ago
      "in slippery conditions": https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/transport/snow-and-ice-make-driving-difficult-across-latvia.a484254/ https://eng.lsm.lv/article/economy/transport/snow-and-ice-ma... (It's only a one-sentence mention in the article. There were only a few more details in the local news: two semis, one passenger car. All three drivers dead, two people in hospital. No details on what exactly happened, who caused it.)
      - moonchrome 4y ago
        And you think riding an ebike in those conditions on the road would not be suicide ? 2 wheels make you extremely sensitive to small traction loss - hitting a patch of wet leaves/gravel/mud/ice with a car tire is a nuisance at best - and a potential fatality on a ebike/motorcycle.
        cuu508 4y ago
        It would be a bad idea. And that specific road, even in good summer weather, I've had a truck pass me on my bike so close I could have touched it with a hand if not elbow. But my point is, while you're better protected in the car, with speed and kinetic energy the stakes go up. If they were three cyclists instead of three drivers in heavy vehicles on that road yesterday, they would likely all still be alive.
- blacksmith_tb 4y ago
  My commute is 4mi each way in quite-rainy Portland, rain on my glasses isn't too much of a problem, though fine mist I need to wipe off occasionally. I haven't ever had any serious problems with road conditions (in ~20yr of bike commutes), though I do have to slow down / watch the turns until later in the winter when most of the leaves are out of the road.
- GlacierFox 4y ago
  That's unfortunate. I seen that a family of four where crushed to death and burned alive in their Nissan X-Trail yesterday when it veered off the road on ice and hit a truck full of propane tanks.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Last year I sprained my wrist slipping on ice while walking to my car, but I never fell off my bike even though I live in a temperate rainforest. What should I learn from this one off incident?
- TomSwirly 4y ago
  I'm 60, and I bike everywhere. I have a non-zero chance of getting into an accident, but on the other hand, I haven't been so fit in 30 years. My guess is that my expected lifespan is increased by this decision. (I would add that I live in a very bike-friendly city.) --- There's a further ethical calculation I would do, which is that using a car is wildly irresponsible giving that we are systematically eating through our resources and destroying our climate and with it our biosphere. (Electric cars are better, but still tremendously consumptive of resources.) So even if I were less safe and the fitness issue were less important, I would still choose not to use a car, like I have chosen for my entire life.

dghlsakjg 4y ago

Have you tried, or are you just speculating about me being delusional? As I said in my comment, I actually do this, and surprised myself with how practical it is in all but the absolute worse weather (there are about 7 days per year where my bike won’t work, but generally that means that it is dangerous driving conditions as well). I live in rural Canada. I’m no stranger to riding in snow, rain and darkness. I could equally say that it is delusional to allow minimally trained civilians access to multi ton vehicles with limited visibility, built in devices intended to distract powered by explosive liquids. But that system works as well.

moonchrome 4y ago
I used to own a motorcycle and I commute with a bycicle in ~mediteranian climate. The only two accidents I've ever had on a motorcycle were low speed manuvers in heavy rain when I got caught by a shower. On a bike just riding on a slippery road is terrible and wading through umbrellas, getting splashed by cars in traffic, rain in the eyes. Riding on two wheels makes you extremely exposed - ebikes are just shit motorcycles (especially self built ones) and have a higher accident rate statistics from what I can tell. If you're not aware how risky it is compared to a car you are you are being delusional.
- marci 4y ago
  Unfortunately, there are some places where the whole city is delusional, like in Finland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU /s
  - tuatoru 4y ago
    It's more like the US is delusional. It was gaslit by General Motors in the 1940s and 1950s. (Yesterday I watched a youtube called "Retrofuturism", that turned out to be, nearly verbatim, an old propaganda piece by GM. It was only about using cars and roads, not about the future (i.e., our world) at all. Some parts were hilarious, but overall it was deeply depressing.)
- 4y ago

TrueGeek 4y ago

Riding increases with proper infrastructure, even in areas with extremely bad weather. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU

olivermuty 4y ago

Hello, I come from the land up over As in I come from Norway and winter tires for bikes work just fine :)

Beltalowda 4y ago

> riding in the rain, and especially when it's snowy/icy - is order of magnitude more dangerous - traction/breaking/reduced visibility. Yes, it's more dangerous. No one said it's not. No one even mentioned safety until you brought it up yourself. If you want to bring up safety: great! Go for it! But no need to start calling people "delusional" right from the bat.

moonchrome 4y ago
But that's the worst part about bad weather - you have to ride much slower and be on high alert - so you're in shitty conditions for even longer - and ebike only makes that worse. For some reason people on ebikes don't realize that they are riding on a shitty motorcycle and how risky it is to remove speed restrictions/zip around traffic on those things - at least that's my impression of the few friends that really got into it. And the accident rate statistics seem to back my impressions.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  Sure, I understand your point; it's a perfectly reasonable. My gripe was with the "that's delusional".

Lutger 4y ago

Maybe if you don't have the infra, but here in the Netherlands its perfectly normal to do this.

0x457 4y ago

Tell that to people of Vietnam.