4 ms·

You can own multiple pair of shoes, and even have one stay at the office, same for pants. I do it and I don't feel like I'm having a miserable existence But fu

You can own multiple pair of shoes, and even have one stay at the office, same for pants. I do it and I don't feel like I'm having a miserable existence But fuck it, let's buy a car and fuck the planet, that's much more convenient, god forbid we sweat or touch the rain, oh the horror !

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago
Yes.
TeMPOraL 4y ago
> You can own multiple pair of shoes, and even have one stay at the office, same for pants. This hints at another counterpoint: it's not just yourself you have to protect from elements, but also whatever it is you want to transport with you. Like those extra shoes. Or electronics. Or groceries. Etc. Waterproof bags probably exist, but I can't say I've seen them available, or used, by anyone at all.
- lm28469 4y ago
  I must live a very peculiar life then. All I need is a backpack and a rain coat, it's been 7 years or so and I haven't experienced anything life changing so far I get on my bike, go to the store, office, friends, &c. rain, snow, sun, wind, it won't kill you really
  - yafbum 4y ago
    Let me guess No kids? What you described was my bike centric life as well until it wasn't. When you have to do school drop-off a couple miles away for middle schoolers, or do that weekly store run for a family, it gets a bit trickier on the bike.
    - Xylakant 4y ago
      I have kids. They’re sitting happily in the dry under the canopy. It’s great. Wherever I need to drop them off, childcare, sports, friends, I park right in front. Predictable travel times, no stuck in traffic. My long term cycling average speed is on par with the average car speed in Berlin. Sure, on some distances I loose vs. a car, but on others I win, since I can take shortcuts or pass cars stuck in traffic. Bike packs 100kg of stuff or a large shopping trolley in volume. Works for the weekly shopping without issue. The only time it sucks is ice on the road. Snow is fine, but ice is not - because bike lanes get treated like third class infrastructure, worse than pavements.
    - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
      I do the school run (3 hilly miles each way) seven times a week on an e-bike - a Tern GSD. It’s fine. Our kid loves it and so do his friends (we share lifts). We do have a car but I haven’t driven it since August.
- fulafel 4y ago
  Waterproof bike panniers are pretty standard.
- noirbot 4y ago
  Waterproof bags have existed for centuries - waxed fabrics, well-treated leathers, and I'm sure plenty of more modern textiles. Or just put a plastic/metal box on the side/back of your bike and use it exactly like you do the trunk in your plastic/metal box of a car.
- Beltalowda 4y ago
  > Waterproof bags probably exist, but I can't say I've seen them available, or used, by anyone at all. What? Almost all non-cheap backpacks are water-proof. Water-proof packs are around everywhere.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Right? I think that I would have to try to find a bike pannier that ISN’T waterproof.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    I honestly never owned one in my life, nor I believe I ever seen one. Note that by "waterproof" I mean something I could stuff a laptop into and have it survive half an hour of heavy rain in it. Not something that will resist a small drizzle for few minutes before its inside surfaces start to get wet.
    - JodieBenitez 4y ago
      Where I live a pair of detachable waterproof (yes, you can literally take a 1 hour shower with them) bike bags is about 30$.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  Waterproof bags or backpacks are absolutely common for electronics. Alternatively, you can buy simple rain covers for backpacks. Bike panniers are at least somewhat water resistant unless you opt for the cheapest. That’s really one of the easiest things to solve.
thiht 4y ago
> let's buy a car and fuck the planet There’s currently football matches being played in Qatar in stadiums with AC set to 20°C in 32°C weather. Thousands of people have travelled there by plane. Me having a car is fine.
- lm28469 4y ago
  The two aren't mutually exclusive
  - thiht 4y ago
    Yeah they kinda are. Scales matter. I know the « A not as bad as B » fallacy and in my opinion it falls short when A is completely negligible compared to B, because it’s not a fallacy anymore, it’s just reality.
- nephanth 4y ago
  https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
  - thiht 4y ago
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Using fallacies to invalidate arguments should be a fallacy by itself. Maybe my argument is a fallacy logically speaking, but in the real world, not everything is ruled by formal logic. If A is completely negligible compared to B, the « A not as bad as B » fallacy doesn’t apply anymore.
    - nephanth 4y ago
      Of course it still does. To me, your argument sounds pretty much the same as "The us dropped a nuke on Hiroshima. Me throwing a molotov at my neighbor is fine." Sure that molotov is negligible in front of B. Doesn't make it okay
      - 4y ago

throwaway0x7E6 4y ago

Yes.

TeMPOraL 4y ago

> You can own multiple pair of shoes, and even have one stay at the office, same for pants. This hints at another counterpoint: it's not just yourself you have to protect from elements, but also whatever it is you want to transport with you. Like those extra shoes. Or electronics. Or groceries. Etc. Waterproof bags probably exist, but I can't say I've seen them available, or used, by anyone at all.

lm28469 4y ago
I must live a very peculiar life then. All I need is a backpack and a rain coat, it's been 7 years or so and I haven't experienced anything life changing so far I get on my bike, go to the store, office, friends, &c. rain, snow, sun, wind, it won't kill you really
- yafbum 4y ago
  Let me guess No kids? What you described was my bike centric life as well until it wasn't. When you have to do school drop-off a couple miles away for middle schoolers, or do that weekly store run for a family, it gets a bit trickier on the bike.
  - Xylakant 4y ago
    I have kids. They’re sitting happily in the dry under the canopy. It’s great. Wherever I need to drop them off, childcare, sports, friends, I park right in front. Predictable travel times, no stuck in traffic. My long term cycling average speed is on par with the average car speed in Berlin. Sure, on some distances I loose vs. a car, but on others I win, since I can take shortcuts or pass cars stuck in traffic. Bike packs 100kg of stuff or a large shopping trolley in volume. Works for the weekly shopping without issue. The only time it sucks is ice on the road. Snow is fine, but ice is not - because bike lanes get treated like third class infrastructure, worse than pavements.
  - Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
    I do the school run (3 hilly miles each way) seven times a week on an e-bike - a Tern GSD. It’s fine. Our kid loves it and so do his friends (we share lifts). We do have a car but I haven’t driven it since August.
fulafel 4y ago
Waterproof bike panniers are pretty standard.
noirbot 4y ago
Waterproof bags have existed for centuries - waxed fabrics, well-treated leathers, and I'm sure plenty of more modern textiles. Or just put a plastic/metal box on the side/back of your bike and use it exactly like you do the trunk in your plastic/metal box of a car.
Beltalowda 4y ago
> Waterproof bags probably exist, but I can't say I've seen them available, or used, by anyone at all. What? Almost all non-cheap backpacks are water-proof. Water-proof packs are around everywhere.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Right? I think that I would have to try to find a bike pannier that ISN’T waterproof.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  I honestly never owned one in my life, nor I believe I ever seen one. Note that by "waterproof" I mean something I could stuff a laptop into and have it survive half an hour of heavy rain in it. Not something that will resist a small drizzle for few minutes before its inside surfaces start to get wet.
  - JodieBenitez 4y ago
    Where I live a pair of detachable waterproof (yes, you can literally take a 1 hour shower with them) bike bags is about 30$.
Xylakant 4y ago
Waterproof bags or backpacks are absolutely common for electronics. Alternatively, you can buy simple rain covers for backpacks. Bike panniers are at least somewhat water resistant unless you opt for the cheapest. That’s really one of the easiest things to solve.

thiht 4y ago

> let's buy a car and fuck the planet There’s currently football matches being played in Qatar in stadiums with AC set to 20°C in 32°C weather. Thousands of people have travelled there by plane. Me having a car is fine.

lm28469 4y ago
The two aren't mutually exclusive
- thiht 4y ago
  Yeah they kinda are. Scales matter. I know the « A not as bad as B » fallacy and in my opinion it falls short when A is completely negligible compared to B, because it’s not a fallacy anymore, it’s just reality.
nephanth 4y ago
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as
- thiht 4y ago
  https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Using fallacies to invalidate arguments should be a fallacy by itself. Maybe my argument is a fallacy logically speaking, but in the real world, not everything is ruled by formal logic. If A is completely negligible compared to B, the « A not as bad as B » fallacy doesn’t apply anymore.
  - nephanth 4y ago
    Of course it still does. To me, your argument sounds pretty much the same as "The us dropped a nuke on Hiroshima. Me throwing a molotov at my neighbor is fine." Sure that molotov is negligible in front of B. Doesn't make it okay
    - 4y ago