6 ms·

Good luck convincing people to give up their cars and go to work soaked in a raincoat every day.

by lzooz 4y ago

iancmceachern 4y ago
I'm an American visiting Paris and have noticed many folks on scooters and ebikes have these skirts that are fabric covers that cover the bike seat and also the legs of the rider when they ride. They also have these mitten like things that attach to the handles that allow you to operate the bike but also protect your hands from the elements. Between those two things, and a decent rain jacket (which you need anyway) it seems to protect folks well and allow them to do just about anything one would do with their car. It's not that far fetched.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  Have you seen any solution they're using for transporting things, like groceries or computers or extra clothes?
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    Yes - a bike cargo rack. You have a waterproof bag that attaches to it. Problem completely solved. It rains quite a bit in Netherlands, and it's the biking capital of the world. It's almost as if rain isn't really that big of a deal.
  - dghlsakjg 4y ago
    Baskets, racks, panniers, backpacks, delivery services, cargo bikes, trailers. A significant number of Parisians don’t own cars so this is no different than before for them.
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    Even without a cargo bike, I carry 20 to 25kg of groceries using a standard step thru city bike equipped with a front and rear rack and dual bags front and rear + backpack.
  - nephanth 4y ago
    In Paris, you will see a lot of uber eats/deliveroo/etc. drivers on bikes and electric mopeds. It reduces their costs by orders of magnitude while not really changing their delivery times (probably shortening them actually. Unrelated to the question, they drive extremely dangerously (because of the way they're paid, they're doing all they can to cut times. do not expect them to stop at red lights)) They have those huge backpacks [1]. Some fasten it like a kind of top-case. [1]: https://images.app.goo.gl/XVyoMqpQiQFvC5EU8 https://images.app.goo.gl/XVyoMqpQiQFvC5EU8
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    Yes, there are entire companies devoted to making them. Here are a few: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle-top-cases?gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jFJONaon0YqJQ4grltbIjgON2G6gAlyet0HCGt2Ph02LbGlZFHcxGIaAlzXEALw_wcB https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle-top-cases?gclid=Cj0KCQiA...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
lm28469 4y ago
Yep, reason #1 we're fucked, people became absolute cry babies about anythign resembling physical effort or inconvenience. They'd burn the planet twice over rather than move their asses anywhere else other than in a 3 tonne climatized metal cage
- lttlrck 4y ago
  Calling them cry babies is really not helpful. Considering we spend most of our lives trying to increase the standard of living for ourselves and for others it's not all that surprising people resist reducing it, is it?
  - lm28469 4y ago
    Is it "increase the standard of living " when it decreases your life expectancy, physical shape, made the city unliveable for pedestrians, potentially fuck up the climate for the next few hundred years, &c ? At some point we have to look in the mirror and make choices for ourselves, and yes, lots of people became absolutely pathetic excuse of human beings, if you can't stand the rain I'm sorry but you definitely are a cry baby. What's the end goal of this pursuit of "quality of life" ? Living in a matrix style pod, being fed food through your veins while being sedated and transported into the metaverse ? If you can't imagine a world without cars and the idea of using a bike repulses you because "rain" you're the problem, or at least a very big part of it
    - factsarelolz 4y ago
      > Is it "increase the standard of living " when it decreases your life expectancy, physical shape Yes, it increases the standard of living by pulling poor people out of poverty. So the rich consumer nation has their life decreased due to over consumption while increasing the standard of living of those from poorer nations. The rich consumer nation cannot consume AND increase life expectancy at an infinite rate.
      - dghlsakjg 4y ago
elliottkember 4y ago
Hopefully, ever-increasing gas prices will do the convincing.
- unglaublich 4y ago
  While I am a big human-powered-transportation supporter, feeding a human is generally more expensive than paying for gas to have a machine do it. A human needs some 2kJ / kg / km to ride. That's 1.6MJ. A car needs ~15L gas per 100km, so that's 45MJ for a 10km ride. While the car uses 30x as much energy, it will only cost you $1.30. The human needs 1.6MJ of food. That's about a grilled chicken sandwich. Which will cost you $4.30...
  - prmoustache 4y ago
    Most people commuting by cars need to exercise at least 2-3 times a week to be healthy anyway. Commuting by foot, bicycle or any human powered way allows you to do the exercising and commuting in one go.
  - elliottkember 4y ago
    * at current gas prices
  - fulafel 4y ago
    What about the e-bike, how many MJ goes to electricity and how many to human power? (Also for the human-powered case, biking often displaces some other exercise. And of course using gas is bringing about the climate catastrophe so it's unethical, money isn't everything)
    - fulafel 4y ago
      Replying to myself, apparently a 25 km/h ebike does about 4.25 Wh/km of battery power which would be 0.15 MJ of electricity for 10 km. A bit more considering losses in charger.
mgbmtl 4y ago
We don't need to convince everybody. Even just convincing 10% makes a huge difference in shifting the conversation, infrastructure, reducing energy usage, etc. I live in Montreal and winter cycling used to be a really hardcore thing. Not anymore. Winters are warmer now, just a bit, but enough to make winter cycling pleasant on most days. Dedicated, snow-plowed cycling lanes made a huge difference. (I use my car most of the time, because usually a daycare run with kid, but now we're equipped for maybe once a week by bike)
leni536 4y ago
Me and many of my collagues do this. We have a drying room at the workplace where we can hang our drenched raincoats.
- scajanus 4y ago
  Yeah -- a lot of the problems presented here (proper clothing for the weather, showering/changing/drying your commuting gear at the office) have simple and quite affordable solutions as soon as even a few people do it. Office and apartment buildings here (Helsinki) even compete by providing convenient bike storage even for cargo bikes with easy access, washing spots for bikes/muddy or sandy gear, drying cabinets etc.

Good luck convincing people to give up their cars and go to work soaked in a raincoat every day.

by lzooz 4y ago

Good luck convincing people to give up their cars and go to work soaked in a raincoat every day.

I'm an American visiting Paris and have noticed many folks on scooters and ebikes have these skirts that are fabric covers that cover the bike seat and also the legs of the rider when they ride. They also have these mitten like things that attach to the handles that allow you to operate the bike but also protect your hands from the elements. Between those two things, and a decent rain jacket (which you need anyway) it seems to protect folks well and allow them to do just about anything one would do with their car. It's not that far fetched.

TeMPOraL 4y ago
Have you seen any solution they're using for transporting things, like groceries or computers or extra clothes?
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Yes - a bike cargo rack. You have a waterproof bag that attaches to it. Problem completely solved. It rains quite a bit in Netherlands, and it's the biking capital of the world. It's almost as if rain isn't really that big of a deal.
- dghlsakjg 4y ago
  Baskets, racks, panniers, backpacks, delivery services, cargo bikes, trailers. A significant number of Parisians don’t own cars so this is no different than before for them.
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Even without a cargo bike, I carry 20 to 25kg of groceries using a standard step thru city bike equipped with a front and rear rack and dual bags front and rear + backpack.
- nephanth 4y ago
  In Paris, you will see a lot of uber eats/deliveroo/etc. drivers on bikes and electric mopeds. It reduces their costs by orders of magnitude while not really changing their delivery times (probably shortening them actually. Unrelated to the question, they drive extremely dangerously (because of the way they're paid, they're doing all they can to cut times. do not expect them to stop at red lights)) They have those huge backpacks [1]. Some fasten it like a kind of top-case. [1]: https://images.app.goo.gl/XVyoMqpQiQFvC5EU8 https://images.app.goo.gl/XVyoMqpQiQFvC5EU8
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  Yes, there are entire companies devoted to making them. Here are a few: https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle-top-cases?gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jFJONaon0YqJQ4grltbIjgON2G6gAlyet0HCGt2Ph02LbGlZFHcxGIaAlzXEALw_wcB https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle-top-cases?gclid=Cj0KCQiA...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

lm28469 4y ago

Yep, reason #1 we're fucked, people became absolute cry babies about anythign resembling physical effort or inconvenience. They'd burn the planet twice over rather than move their asses anywhere else other than in a 3 tonne climatized metal cage

lttlrck 4y ago
Calling them cry babies is really not helpful. Considering we spend most of our lives trying to increase the standard of living for ourselves and for others it's not all that surprising people resist reducing it, is it?
- lm28469 4y ago
  Is it "increase the standard of living " when it decreases your life expectancy, physical shape, made the city unliveable for pedestrians, potentially fuck up the climate for the next few hundred years, &c ? At some point we have to look in the mirror and make choices for ourselves, and yes, lots of people became absolutely pathetic excuse of human beings, if you can't stand the rain I'm sorry but you definitely are a cry baby. What's the end goal of this pursuit of "quality of life" ? Living in a matrix style pod, being fed food through your veins while being sedated and transported into the metaverse ? If you can't imagine a world without cars and the idea of using a bike repulses you because "rain" you're the problem, or at least a very big part of it
  - factsarelolz 4y ago
    > Is it "increase the standard of living " when it decreases your life expectancy, physical shape Yes, it increases the standard of living by pulling poor people out of poverty. So the rich consumer nation has their life decreased due to over consumption while increasing the standard of living of those from poorer nations. The rich consumer nation cannot consume AND increase life expectancy at an infinite rate.
    - dghlsakjg 4y ago

elliottkember 4y ago

Hopefully, ever-increasing gas prices will do the convincing.

unglaublich 4y ago
While I am a big human-powered-transportation supporter, feeding a human is generally more expensive than paying for gas to have a machine do it. A human needs some 2kJ / kg / km to ride. That's 1.6MJ. A car needs ~15L gas per 100km, so that's 45MJ for a 10km ride. While the car uses 30x as much energy, it will only cost you $1.30. The human needs 1.6MJ of food. That's about a grilled chicken sandwich. Which will cost you $4.30...
- prmoustache 4y ago
  Most people commuting by cars need to exercise at least 2-3 times a week to be healthy anyway. Commuting by foot, bicycle or any human powered way allows you to do the exercising and commuting in one go.
- elliottkember 4y ago
  * at current gas prices
- fulafel 4y ago
  What about the e-bike, how many MJ goes to electricity and how many to human power? (Also for the human-powered case, biking often displaces some other exercise. And of course using gas is bringing about the climate catastrophe so it's unethical, money isn't everything)
  - fulafel 4y ago
    Replying to myself, apparently a 25 km/h ebike does about 4.25 Wh/km of battery power which would be 0.15 MJ of electricity for 10 km. A bit more considering losses in charger.

mgbmtl 4y ago

We don't need to convince everybody. Even just convincing 10% makes a huge difference in shifting the conversation, infrastructure, reducing energy usage, etc. I live in Montreal and winter cycling used to be a really hardcore thing. Not anymore. Winters are warmer now, just a bit, but enough to make winter cycling pleasant on most days. Dedicated, snow-plowed cycling lanes made a huge difference. (I use my car most of the time, because usually a daycare run with kid, but now we're equipped for maybe once a week by bike)

leni536 4y ago

Me and many of my collagues do this. We have a drying room at the workplace where we can hang our drenched raincoats.

scajanus 4y ago
Yeah -- a lot of the problems presented here (proper clothing for the weather, showering/changing/drying your commuting gear at the office) have simple and quite affordable solutions as soon as even a few people do it. Office and apartment buildings here (Helsinki) even compete by providing convenient bike storage even for cargo bikes with easy access, washing spots for bikes/muddy or sandy gear, drying cabinets etc.