4 ms·

Congrats! And thank you! This changed my lisp experience and my wishlist for interacting with non-s-exp code when I found it years ago.

by tsuru 4y ago

capableweb 4y ago
Same here. After getting used to the "automatic" way of editing and writing s-expressions, I can't believe something similar doesn't exists for the C-like code most people write today, but then I remember how much syntax all those languages really contain. Rust is like a trivia answer for "How much syntax could you possibly put into one language?".
- Myrmornis 4y ago
  Basic paredit operations work surprisingly well on C-like languages like Python. Try it! I think it does ok on Rust too. I'm thinking mainly of paredit-kill and navigating paired delimiters. A long time ago I collected together some tweaks for using it with Python etc here: https://github.com/dandavison/paredit-c https://github.com/dandavison/paredit-c
  - mickeyp 4y ago
    Ha. I, too, hacked paredit to work with Python about a decade ago for the same reasons as you. And yes, it does work better than you'd think.
    - Myrmornis 4y ago
      Hi Mickey, ah no -- you've done WAY more than me in this area! I had been meaning to try your combobulate package. FWIW: after 20 years of Emacs I personally switched to VSCode a couple of years ago because I felt that in Emacs I was missing out on the LSP experience that VSCode provided in Rust, Typescript, Scala, etc. (I was using Eglot). In any case, there's a very nice Emacs emulation mode in VSCode https://github.com/whitphx/vscode-emacs-mcx https://github.com/whitphx/vscode-emacs-mcx which includes some paredit functionality courtesy of https://robert.kra.hn/past-projects/paredit-js.html https://robert.kra.hn/past-projects/paredit-js.html and I'm working on porting my favorite paredit function, paredit-kill. Unfortunately that's the one where the paredit author left this comment in the code: ;;; Please do not try to understand this code unless you have a VERY ;;; good reason to do so. I gave up trying to figure it out well ;;; enough to explain it, long ago.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    Does it automatically balances all the parenthesis/brackets/other characters? I think that's what I'm missing the most.
    - Myrmornis 4y ago
      Yep.
  - tuukkah 4y ago
    > C-like languages like Python I can see Paredit working somehow with the curly brace blocks of C, but how does it handle the significant whitespace of Python? Are indent and dedent handled as tokens?
    - Myrmornis 4y ago
      No, I've never tried to make it do that. So in Python paredit-kill will not kill a function definition, whereas it would in a language that uses braces for function bodies.
    - mickeyp 4y ago
      I did something far cruder which is also how paredit itself works internally. Redefine the meaning of moving up, down, left or right by syntactic token. In Python up/down is either by block (try, if, etc.) or by s-exp ([], {}, etc.) which Emacs is already capable of doing. By doing that you can effectively teach paredit a little bit about how the language works, as you're moving point around for it. Note that my crude hack was never more than a prototype. Though it did work in more places than it ought to.
- bhrgunatha 4y ago
  Here's hoping that type of structured movement and editing will spread much wider now tree-sitter is merged into emacs master. Already quite a few parsers/grammars available for tree sitter: https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/#available-parsers https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/#available-parsers

Congrats! And thank you! This changed my lisp experience and my wishlist for interacting with non-s-exp code when I found it years ago.

by tsuru 4y ago

Congrats! And thank you! This changed my lisp experience and my wishlist for interacting with non-s-exp code when I found it years ago.

capableweb 4y ago

Same here. After getting used to the "automatic" way of editing and writing s-expressions, I can't believe something similar doesn't exists for the C-like code most people write today, but then I remember how much syntax all those languages really contain. Rust is like a trivia answer for "How much syntax could you possibly put into one language?".

Myrmornis 4y ago
Basic paredit operations work surprisingly well on C-like languages like Python. Try it! I think it does ok on Rust too. I'm thinking mainly of paredit-kill and navigating paired delimiters. A long time ago I collected together some tweaks for using it with Python etc here: https://github.com/dandavison/paredit-c https://github.com/dandavison/paredit-c
- mickeyp 4y ago
  Ha. I, too, hacked paredit to work with Python about a decade ago for the same reasons as you. And yes, it does work better than you'd think.
  - Myrmornis 4y ago
    Hi Mickey, ah no -- you've done WAY more than me in this area! I had been meaning to try your combobulate package. FWIW: after 20 years of Emacs I personally switched to VSCode a couple of years ago because I felt that in Emacs I was missing out on the LSP experience that VSCode provided in Rust, Typescript, Scala, etc. (I was using Eglot). In any case, there's a very nice Emacs emulation mode in VSCode https://github.com/whitphx/vscode-emacs-mcx https://github.com/whitphx/vscode-emacs-mcx which includes some paredit functionality courtesy of https://robert.kra.hn/past-projects/paredit-js.html https://robert.kra.hn/past-projects/paredit-js.html and I'm working on porting my favorite paredit function, paredit-kill. Unfortunately that's the one where the paredit author left this comment in the code: ;;; Please do not try to understand this code unless you have a VERY ;;; good reason to do so. I gave up trying to figure it out well ;;; enough to explain it, long ago.
- capableweb 4y ago
  Does it automatically balances all the parenthesis/brackets/other characters? I think that's what I'm missing the most.
  - Myrmornis 4y ago
    Yep.
- tuukkah 4y ago
  > C-like languages like Python I can see Paredit working somehow with the curly brace blocks of C, but how does it handle the significant whitespace of Python? Are indent and dedent handled as tokens?
  - Myrmornis 4y ago
    No, I've never tried to make it do that. So in Python paredit-kill will not kill a function definition, whereas it would in a language that uses braces for function bodies.
  - mickeyp 4y ago
    I did something far cruder which is also how paredit itself works internally. Redefine the meaning of moving up, down, left or right by syntactic token. In Python up/down is either by block (try, if, etc.) or by s-exp ([], {}, etc.) which Emacs is already capable of doing. By doing that you can effectively teach paredit a little bit about how the language works, as you're moving point around for it. Note that my crude hack was never more than a prototype. Though it did work in more places than it ought to.
bhrgunatha 4y ago
Here's hoping that type of structured movement and editing will spread much wider now tree-sitter is merged into emacs master. Already quite a few parsers/grammars available for tree sitter: https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/#available-parsers https://tree-sitter.github.io/tree-sitter/#available-parsers