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"gold hydrogen" My god the hydrocarbon industry is shameless. "Our hydrogen got dumped on with this color grading system." "Not with out gold tier ultra premiu
by oehpr 4y ago
"gold hydrogen"
My god the hydrocarbon industry is shameless. "Our hydrogen got dumped on with this color grading system." "Not with out gold tier ultra premium deluxe hydrogen."
And what happens to the carbon that hydrogen is bonded to?
>Capturing or otherwise neutralizing the CO2 must be done safely, says Stephen Wallace, who runs a microbiology lab at the University of Edinburgh. But he adds that Cemvita Factory’s idea of
OK so no plans.
The most inexpensive thing possible will happen. This is grey hydrogen with branding.
- AtlasBarfed 4y agoHydrogen is a trojan horse. I give you exhibit A.
- nr2x 4y agoThere’s a lot of places with a ton of solar though, and you can use that for hydrogen. It could be a potential export from the Middle East. They also have the infra already.
- number6 4y agoSolar-powered desalination that produces water and hydrogen.
- jojobas 4y agoDesalination produces water and brine. Desalination and electrolysis don't have much in common.
- alexvoda 4y agoElectrolysis without first desalinating produces chlorine.
- number6 4y agoProducing desalinated water and hydrogen from seawater using solar energy. •Performing a multi-objective optimization to achieve the highest performance. •Considering low, high, and no solar radiation operational modes during a day. •Producing 4.33, 2.62, and 3.54 g/s of hydrogen for mentioned modes, respectively. •Attaining 81.5%, 27.9% and 50.61% of energy efficiency for mentioned modes, respectiv https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319920344657 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03603... Don't know how much merit this has
- nr2x 4y agoBrine is such a tough nut to crack!
- rini17 4y agoSure, lets make hydrogen with solar. Now we have ultraflammable gas prone to leaking that requires high pressures and/or extremely low temperatures to have some energy density. Where's the infra for that? Have you ever considered why there are no home hydrogen generator/storage units to be hooked to solar? Because it's just too technically challenging and in the end not competitive to batteries or thermal storage.
- AtlasBarfed 4y agoI have no quarrel with the engineering. "Hydrogen" the industry moniker is a big oil trojan horse and an attempted "big lie". If it were enacted at any substantive policy level outside of niche applications, you would then add "inevitable massive funding boondoggle". Outside of research and prototypes, absolutely no funding should go to hydrogen infrastructure or production/use. It's wasted money and funding that should be applied to grid, alternative energy, and EV infrastructure projects. If research produces economical use cases for hydrogen, great. But this article is the best example of what "The Hydrogen Movement" is: greenwashing fossil fuels and carbon accounting fraud. I've been arguing for two years now that the "grey/blue/green" hydrogen labels are pure marketing bullshit. While they may in the beginning refer to legitimate categorizations of hydrogen "sourcing", in reality they will be used to greenwash fossil fuel hydrogen production through fraud, lies, obfuscation, or switcheroo. "Gold" Hydrogen. The industry is drinking their own kool aid.
- nr2x 4y agoSure, but planes aren’t going to run on batteries for long haul flights. The nice trick with fuel is the plane gets lighter the farther it goes. Batteries aren’t like that. They stay heavy. We need something for this issue and marketing and lies aside, my admittedly limited understanding of the science is that there are actually ways to make hydrogen without negative externalities. But yes, this article feels like a totally load of bollocks.
- AtlasBarfed 4y agoLong haul aviation: yeah I agree. Synthfuels or hydrogen. I believe the economics of bev aviation will replace short and maybe medium though.
- _hypx 4y agoI wish people stop fantasizing about battery powered planes completely. All EV planes are ultra-lights without pressurized fuselages and no ability to fly in the tropopause. So they can never be particularly comfortable or safe aircrafts. All commercial airliners will run on some kind of chemical for the foreseeable future. If not hydrogen, it will be synfuels/e-fuels or something similar.
- throwawaylinux 4y agoI'm assuming tax payers will be on the hook to give oil corporations billions of dollars in "carbon credits" for capturing the carbon that they would otherwise have otherwise polluted in the course of their petroleum profiteering.
- darawk 4y agoAs they should. That's the whole point of carbon credits. If you produce energy without producing CO2, you should get credit for that.
- torrance 4y agoNo. Carbon credits are meant to create a market for the right to emit carbon dioxide, ideally where the total credits are fixed and reducing per year. What you're talking about are carbon offsets, which in turn increase the the total pool of credits per year. Ideally, these offsets permanently lock an equivalent amount of CO2 away in some form (permanent forests, etc.). But increasingly, they do nothing of the sort. Your example of handling CO2 emissions from hydrogen reserves is a case in point.
- darawk 4y agoIf the CO2 emissions produce energy that funges against carbon intensive energy, it is a net benefit. The arithmetic here really isn't hard.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kamray23 4y agoYeah, burning oil (with microbes this time) to make hydrogen while wasting the rest of the energy in the oil (to sustain microbes) while generating the same emissions as oil (but using microbes instead of burning it in engines) so that when the hydrogen (which has less energy than oil because microbes) can be used without harmful emissions in the cityscape (but overall double the emissions of hydrocarbons per mile because microbes). It doesn't sound good when you put it like that, so you call it gold instead, supplanting the """"actual"""" meaning of "gold hydrogen" which is emissionless hydrogen pockets underground. Fuck the colour system though, it's ridiculous obfuscation. This is just plain old "hydrogen we made by wasting half the energy from oil (using microbes)". PS. For a little substantiation to those "less energy" claims, dihydrogen has a heat of combustion of ~290 kJ/mol. Methane has 890 kJ/mol, and ideally decomposes into two hydrogen molecules at 580 kJ/mol. Add in the fact that such a reaction literally cannot exist and whatever reaction the microbes do, they probably do to gain energy as they release the carbon, we can expect a lower ratio of hydrogen molecules to methane in. With longer hydrocarbons, the super ideal ratio drops, as well as with switching to more complex hydrocarbons, so we're talking hyper idealised scenario here. This is overall a pretty bad idea, probably not far from SMR in efficiency, if not worse. EDIT: I've gone and balanced it out, assuming that the microbes use water to pull the oxygen from (as they do with extreme likelihood), the ideal reaction is CH₄ + 2 H₂O → CO₂ + 4 H₂ with an enthalpy of 252.8 kJ/mol. That's more endothermic than SMR, which sits at 206 kJ/mol. Both are very strongly endothermic. _It would, genuinely be way more efficient to just burn natural gas or your output hydrogen to make ""grey"" hydrogen._ This is garbage and results in higher emissions than existing, widespread technology accounting for ~78% of global hydrogen production. What the hell! Not to mention that both of these are a horrible idea beacuse it's genuinely more environmentally friendly to just burn natural gas. This causes more emissions in every case than just natural gas.
- pxmpxm 4y agoI imagine you prefer "green" strip mining for EV battery and motor precursors?