4 ms·

Not that I can read this paywalled article, but the ideas that the economy is Doing Great and crypto is Dead are both wishful thinking

by zeofig 4y ago

hereme888 4y ago
My thoughts exactly. We have yet to feel what's actually coming to the global economy next year, and crypto may rise again. After all, everyone was expecting a horrible bear market and correction in crypto this year, but between FTX, Terra and other situations it just came sooner than expected.
galaxyLogic 4y ago
Why is crypto a bad thing?
- Finnucane 4y ago
  It’s a high-tech reinterpretation of Andrew Jackson’s monetary policy.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  It's purported benefits (exchanging money through boundaries either legally or financially created) outweigh its drawbacks carbon footprint/gpu market manipulation. Those who disagree weigh the benefits higher than the drawbacks and those who agree weight the drawbacks higher than the benefits. Systemically it serves as a transaction/computational system built almost entirely on the inability to manage negative externalizes.
- anon291 4y ago
  Crypto is neither good nor bad. Convincing unsophisticated people to take money that has empirical value in the current economy and invest that in a token that means absolutely nothing and entitles you to no money that means anything useful or has any empirical value.... that is perhaps not criminal, but very anti-social behavior. If there were a real government demanding payment of taxes in bitcoin, then it would have value. Until then, it does not. El Salvador does not count because El Salvador is inconsequential, and either way they have no army. Also, it's obviously a political stunt by their young and hip president.
  - datadata 4y ago
    There are literally hundreds of currencies that were demanded for tax payments that have ended up with zero value eventually. That is not sufficient to make a valuable currency. What is necessary (in my opinion) is using the currency broadly for payments (not only taxes), and having a monetary policy that does not use excessive debt or inflation.
    - anon291 4y ago
      It is not a sufficient condition. It is a necessary one.
- shagie 4y ago
  From the article: > The density of connections between these players is nicely illustrated with a sprawling diagram in an October report by the Financial Stability Oversight Council ( https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/261/FSOC-Digital-Assets-Report-2022.pdf https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/261/FSOC-Digital-Asse... ) , which brings together federal financial regulators. > To historians, this litany of contagion and collapse is reminiscent of the free banking era from 1837 to 1863 when banks issued their own bank notes, fraud proliferated, and runs, suspensions of withdrawals, and panics occurred regularly. Yet while those crises routinely walloped business activity, crypto’s has largely passed the economy by. I'd also suggest looking at https://www.fdic.gov/about/history/timeline/1850-1899.html https://www.fdic.gov/about/history/timeline/1850-1899.html The "free banking period" ( https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137361219_2 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137361219_2 ) ended with the passage of the National Bank Act - https://www.occ.treas.gov/about/who-we-are/history/founding-occ-national-bank-system/index-founding-occ-national-banking-system.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/about/who-we-are/history/founding-... Crypto is trying to reestablish the banking system of the 1800s with all the fraud, bank runs, banks creating their own currency, and the like... and then realizing why all the regulations that are in place are in place.
  - AnthonyMouse 4y ago
    > Crypto is trying to reestablish the banking system of the 1800s with all the fraud, bank runs, banks creating their own currency, and the like... and then realizing why all the regulations that are in place are in place. What it's really doing is proving that those regulations aren't necessary, because it's possible to have a crypto crash without affecting the general economy. Because the benefit of those regulations is so that ordinary people can have a safe place to keep their money. But that works even if it applies only to savings banks and not to crypto, because that gives risk-averse people the safe place to hold their deposits even while a fast-moving unregulated system exists alongside it. Which gives the best of both worlds.
    - danaris 4y ago
      > it's possible to have a crypto crash without affecting the general economy. This is only true because the only people (to within a rounding error) using cryptocurrencies are speculators, scam artists, and their victims. If cryptocurrency ever became what its proponents suggest—a mainstream currency in general use—then these crashes would affect regular people and the general economy just as the ones mentioned in the 1800s did.
shagie 4y ago
Gift link'ed : https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-cryptos-collapse-may-have-done-the-economy-a-favor-11669215926?st=2ikitygnshejh15&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-cryptos-collapse-may-have-d...
anon291 4y ago
The article says nothing about the economy doing great, and even leaves the possibility of real bank collapse on the table. I don't know where you got the impression that 'doing X a favor' means 'X is doing great'. Last I checked... you don't help out things that are doing great.

Not that I can read this paywalled article, but the ideas that the economy is Doing Great and crypto is Dead are both wishful thinking

by zeofig 4y ago

Not that I can read this paywalled article, but the ideas that the economy is Doing Great and crypto is Dead are both wishful thinking

hereme888 4y ago

My thoughts exactly. We have yet to feel what's actually coming to the global economy next year, and crypto may rise again. After all, everyone was expecting a horrible bear market and correction in crypto this year, but between FTX, Terra and other situations it just came sooner than expected.

galaxyLogic 4y ago

Why is crypto a bad thing?

Finnucane 4y ago
It’s a high-tech reinterpretation of Andrew Jackson’s monetary policy.
kelseyfrog 4y ago
It's purported benefits (exchanging money through boundaries either legally or financially created) outweigh its drawbacks carbon footprint/gpu market manipulation. Those who disagree weigh the benefits higher than the drawbacks and those who agree weight the drawbacks higher than the benefits. Systemically it serves as a transaction/computational system built almost entirely on the inability to manage negative externalizes.
anon291 4y ago
Crypto is neither good nor bad. Convincing unsophisticated people to take money that has empirical value in the current economy and invest that in a token that means absolutely nothing and entitles you to no money that means anything useful or has any empirical value.... that is perhaps not criminal, but very anti-social behavior. If there were a real government demanding payment of taxes in bitcoin, then it would have value. Until then, it does not. El Salvador does not count because El Salvador is inconsequential, and either way they have no army. Also, it's obviously a political stunt by their young and hip president.
- datadata 4y ago
  There are literally hundreds of currencies that were demanded for tax payments that have ended up with zero value eventually. That is not sufficient to make a valuable currency. What is necessary (in my opinion) is using the currency broadly for payments (not only taxes), and having a monetary policy that does not use excessive debt or inflation.
  - anon291 4y ago
    It is not a sufficient condition. It is a necessary one.
shagie 4y ago
From the article: > The density of connections between these players is nicely illustrated with a sprawling diagram in an October report by the Financial Stability Oversight Council ( https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/261/FSOC-Digital-Assets-Report-2022.pdf https://home.treasury.gov/system/files/261/FSOC-Digital-Asse... ) , which brings together federal financial regulators. > To historians, this litany of contagion and collapse is reminiscent of the free banking era from 1837 to 1863 when banks issued their own bank notes, fraud proliferated, and runs, suspensions of withdrawals, and panics occurred regularly. Yet while those crises routinely walloped business activity, crypto’s has largely passed the economy by. I'd also suggest looking at https://www.fdic.gov/about/history/timeline/1850-1899.html https://www.fdic.gov/about/history/timeline/1850-1899.html The "free banking period" ( https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137361219_2 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137361219_2 ) ended with the passage of the National Bank Act - https://www.occ.treas.gov/about/who-we-are/history/founding-occ-national-bank-system/index-founding-occ-national-banking-system.html https://www.occ.treas.gov/about/who-we-are/history/founding-... Crypto is trying to reestablish the banking system of the 1800s with all the fraud, bank runs, banks creating their own currency, and the like... and then realizing why all the regulations that are in place are in place.
- AnthonyMouse 4y ago
  > Crypto is trying to reestablish the banking system of the 1800s with all the fraud, bank runs, banks creating their own currency, and the like... and then realizing why all the regulations that are in place are in place. What it's really doing is proving that those regulations aren't necessary, because it's possible to have a crypto crash without affecting the general economy. Because the benefit of those regulations is so that ordinary people can have a safe place to keep their money. But that works even if it applies only to savings banks and not to crypto, because that gives risk-averse people the safe place to hold their deposits even while a fast-moving unregulated system exists alongside it. Which gives the best of both worlds.
  - danaris 4y ago
    > it's possible to have a crypto crash without affecting the general economy. This is only true because the only people (to within a rounding error) using cryptocurrencies are speculators, scam artists, and their victims. If cryptocurrency ever became what its proponents suggest—a mainstream currency in general use—then these crashes would affect regular people and the general economy just as the ones mentioned in the 1800s did.

shagie 4y ago

Gift link'ed : https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-cryptos-collapse-may-have-done-the-economy-a-favor-11669215926?st=2ikitygnshejh15&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-cryptos-collapse-may-have-d...

anon291 4y ago

The article says nothing about the economy doing great, and even leaves the possibility of real bank collapse on the table. I don't know where you got the impression that 'doing X a favor' means 'X is doing great'. Last I checked... you don't help out things that are doing great.