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It's not a race thing, it's a trust and culture thing. There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. If your government sucks

It's not a race thing, it's a trust and culture thing. There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. If your government sucks, laws are poorly enforced or even maliciously enforced - there is low trust among the people, no respect for public spaces and no one follows the social norms.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago
Singapore's achieves "harmony" in their diverse city-state through severe authoritarian control. There's harmony because the state dictates their vison of harmony which all must abide by.
- largepeepee 4y ago
  Maybe at first. Singapore had to make lots of tough decisions early on, and they fixed it early. Problems which still plague their neighbors to this day. I say today, the base economic situation of the people and the disparity of wealth is a bigger factor to what makes a country -overall safe or unsafe, which is what the thread is about and what I was replying to. Safety first.
  - eru 4y ago
    When measured by income or accumulated wealth, Singapore has huge inequality. When measured by things like access to good education, infrastructure, housing, things look more equal. A big temper to any real authoritarian tendencies in Singapore is that it's easy for our inhabitants to vote with their feet: people can and do leave. Thanks to some special diplomatic deals, Singaporeans have special access to working visas for the US, too. So Singapore can only be as authoritarian as McDonald's: there's no vote for what goes onto a Big Mac, but if you don't like it, you can always go to Burger King.
    - largepeepee 4y ago
      Well said, I rarely compliment replies but I feel that description is worth bookmarking.
      - eru 4y ago
        Thanks for the kind words. I'm a big fan of subsidiarity and local decisions making, exactly so that when people vote with their feet, they don't have to travel too far to get meaningful change. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity It sounds like a boring, middle-of-the-road principle; but it gives you such radical sounding conclusions as 'a federal minimum wage is bonkers, why couldn't the counties (or even cities) handle that issue by themselves?'
  - User23 4y ago
    Singapore was also blessed with an extremely capable leader in Lee Kuan Yew[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew
- deltaseventhree 4y ago
  Make no mistake. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Eventually the outcome of authoritarian harmony comes actual harmony as people become used to the rules and follow those rules regardless of whether or not they exist. The freedom to shit on the street in San Francisco shouldn't be a freedom that is valued At all.
  - mxkopy 4y ago
    Let's not conflate people being clean because the government is notoriously lethal and is tracking your social standing with people being clean because they've been taught from a young age to be respectful to the environment. Authoritarian 'harmony' doesn't imply any sort of longevity.
    - deltaseventhree 4y ago
      Sure. But make sure you also conflate freedom with people dying from the opioid epidemic, the huge drug problem in San Francisco and homeless encampments everywhere and the complete and utter failure to build one rail line connecting LA and SF. All of these problems occur because the US values individual freedoms over central authority. You will note: Freedom doesn't imply any sort of longevity Either. The problem with the west is that freedom is viewed as a sort of moral truth. People assume that an authoritarian society is bad and that a society with freedom is good. The truth is far more complex. What I say is an aspect of the truth, as is what you say. What truly should absolutely never be conflated is the idea that one of these truths overrides the other.
      - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
        Benjamin Franklin said it best imho: "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." A lot of the modern emphasis on explaining away people's behaviour as an inevitable outcome of their poverty/race/culture/history (depending on who you ask) is a leading cause of a lot of the problems we see imho. One of the core beliefs our society is based on is that God gave us free will so we can make choices. While some degree of corrective was maybe necessary as current and historical wrongs do impact us today, it has gone too far imo. Someone at some point of time has to break a cycle by making a choice to be a better person.
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  I’m sure it would be messier and less safe without that but every other supermajority East Asian city is also very safe compared to Western Europe or North America. Hong Kong before and after handover, Seoul, Beijing, all safe. All far poorer than Chicago which is much more violent.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  So we need to bring back public beatings (canings) ?
- refurb 4y ago
  Yup. Singapore routinely cracks down on any sort of “racial disharmony” and has zero issues with race based rules like banning public drinking in Little India. The government fully admits the racial mix creates unique problems they always have to be on top of.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
eru 4y ago
I live in Singapore. Yes, it's also incredibly safe, clean, and functional. It's a very different place from Tokyo, though. Chiang Mai in Thailand also seemed safe and trustworthy when I was there a few months ago: eg the locals casually left stuff outside and on their motorbikes, petty theft of unattended items seems to be no problem. Our neighbour Malaysia seems to have more problems with these issues. Looking into the causes of the differences between countries would be interesting. I suspect in Singapore our development is at least partially the result of deliberate social engineering by LKY. I can also tell you that after 40 years of 'actually existing socialism' vs 'social market economy', that East Germany had markedly lower trust and safety than West Germany. And the wounds still haven't healed. Switzerland has even higher trust. You can see similar gaps in Taiwan/Hong Kong vs mainland China.
GameOfFrowns 4y ago
>There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. Any examples for this statement?

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

Singapore's achieves "harmony" in their diverse city-state through severe authoritarian control. There's harmony because the state dictates their vison of harmony which all must abide by.

largepeepee 4y ago
Maybe at first. Singapore had to make lots of tough decisions early on, and they fixed it early. Problems which still plague their neighbors to this day. I say today, the base economic situation of the people and the disparity of wealth is a bigger factor to what makes a country -overall safe or unsafe, which is what the thread is about and what I was replying to. Safety first.
- eru 4y ago
  When measured by income or accumulated wealth, Singapore has huge inequality. When measured by things like access to good education, infrastructure, housing, things look more equal. A big temper to any real authoritarian tendencies in Singapore is that it's easy for our inhabitants to vote with their feet: people can and do leave. Thanks to some special diplomatic deals, Singaporeans have special access to working visas for the US, too. So Singapore can only be as authoritarian as McDonald's: there's no vote for what goes onto a Big Mac, but if you don't like it, you can always go to Burger King.
  - largepeepee 4y ago
    Well said, I rarely compliment replies but I feel that description is worth bookmarking.
    - eru 4y ago
      Thanks for the kind words. I'm a big fan of subsidiarity and local decisions making, exactly so that when people vote with their feet, they don't have to travel too far to get meaningful change. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subsidiarity It sounds like a boring, middle-of-the-road principle; but it gives you such radical sounding conclusions as 'a federal minimum wage is bonkers, why couldn't the counties (or even cities) handle that issue by themselves?'
- User23 4y ago
  Singapore was also blessed with an extremely capable leader in Lee Kuan Yew[1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Kuan_Yew
deltaseventhree 4y ago
Make no mistake. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. Eventually the outcome of authoritarian harmony comes actual harmony as people become used to the rules and follow those rules regardless of whether or not they exist. The freedom to shit on the street in San Francisco shouldn't be a freedom that is valued At all.
- mxkopy 4y ago
  Let's not conflate people being clean because the government is notoriously lethal and is tracking your social standing with people being clean because they've been taught from a young age to be respectful to the environment. Authoritarian 'harmony' doesn't imply any sort of longevity.
  - deltaseventhree 4y ago
    Sure. But make sure you also conflate freedom with people dying from the opioid epidemic, the huge drug problem in San Francisco and homeless encampments everywhere and the complete and utter failure to build one rail line connecting LA and SF. All of these problems occur because the US values individual freedoms over central authority. You will note: Freedom doesn't imply any sort of longevity Either. The problem with the west is that freedom is viewed as a sort of moral truth. People assume that an authoritarian society is bad and that a society with freedom is good. The truth is far more complex. What I say is an aspect of the truth, as is what you say. What truly should absolutely never be conflated is the idea that one of these truths overrides the other.
    - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
      Benjamin Franklin said it best imho: "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." A lot of the modern emphasis on explaining away people's behaviour as an inevitable outcome of their poverty/race/culture/history (depending on who you ask) is a leading cause of a lot of the problems we see imho. One of the core beliefs our society is based on is that God gave us free will so we can make choices. While some degree of corrective was maybe necessary as current and historical wrongs do impact us today, it has gone too far imo. Someone at some point of time has to break a cycle by making a choice to be a better person.
barry-cotter 4y ago
I’m sure it would be messier and less safe without that but every other supermajority East Asian city is also very safe compared to Western Europe or North America. Hong Kong before and after handover, Seoul, Beijing, all safe. All far poorer than Chicago which is much more violent.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
So we need to bring back public beatings (canings) ?
refurb 4y ago
Yup. Singapore routinely cracks down on any sort of “racial disharmony” and has zero issues with race based rules like banning public drinking in Little India. The government fully admits the racial mix creates unique problems they always have to be on top of.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

eru 4y ago

I live in Singapore. Yes, it's also incredibly safe, clean, and functional. It's a very different place from Tokyo, though. Chiang Mai in Thailand also seemed safe and trustworthy when I was there a few months ago: eg the locals casually left stuff outside and on their motorbikes, petty theft of unattended items seems to be no problem. Our neighbour Malaysia seems to have more problems with these issues. Looking into the causes of the differences between countries would be interesting. I suspect in Singapore our development is at least partially the result of deliberate social engineering by LKY. I can also tell you that after 40 years of 'actually existing socialism' vs 'social market economy', that East Germany had markedly lower trust and safety than West Germany. And the wounds still haven't healed. Switzerland has even higher trust. You can see similar gaps in Taiwan/Hong Kong vs mainland China.

GameOfFrowns 4y ago

>There are diverse countries that have similar levels of safety like Singapore. Any examples for this statement?