4 ms·

I absolutely agree. The breathability of goretex is extremely poor to the point that I consider it a scam. If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable wi

by _yb2s 4y ago

I absolutely agree. The breathability of goretex is extremely poor to the point that I consider it a scam. If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable with plain fabric, especially wool. If it is raining, you'll be just as comfortable in a plastic raincoat (especially polyurethane) with pit zips, and you will stay dry a lot longer in a heavy pour. Gore-tex shells don't breath at all unless you keep up the DWR layer on the outside such that the rain beads off. However, if you do regularly maintain the DWR layer, the garment is waterproof anyways without Gore-tex, and more breathable. Moreover, the membranes don't really last a long time, a few year old gore-tex jacket will have a broken membrane, but the nylon outside shell will still look new. I'd guess that about 95% of Gore-tex shells in actual use are no longer waterproof or breathable due to the combo of a split membrane, and worn out DWR coating. I agree that extreme mountaineering is the one use case where it makes sense. Also, usually with a new top quality outer layer for every trip or every few trips... Even then, there is probably better tech out there, like Columbia OutDry, which puts the membrane on the outside avoiding the need for PFAS based DWR.

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
My guess is that you do not live in a climate that resembles, say, the British Isles. Goretex was a total game changer in these environments (and as noted by other commenters, similarly in the PNW in N.America). > If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable with plain fabric, especially wool. If it is raining, you'll be just as comfortable in a plastic raincoat (especially polyurethane) with pit zips, and you will stay dry a lot longer in a heavy pour. I grew up wearing both, and then later added waxed cotton. Sorry, just ick. You can have my goretex jackets (Arcteryx, Berghaus, Mountain Equipment) when you pry them from the fingers of my not-so-cold, only-slightly-wet dead hands.
- _yb2s 4y ago
  I am from the PNW and do a ton of hiking in the rain, this is how I came to have such a poor opinion of goretex. I’ll add that I sweat too much on a hard hike for goretex to keep up, which could be a physiological difference that makes it not work for me. Sweat will literally be pouring out the bottom of the shell. For the light constant rain in the PNW, wool with the natural lanolin intact will keep me dry all day with incredible breathability. There are a few companies that make high end wool based gear. I’m also curious if you’ve actually tried a modern higher end polyurethane shell (not PVC) that has well designed vents all over it, or are you just talking about old fashioned PVC “oilskins” which lack good vents?
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    A couple of years ago, I did the Cape Wrath Trail (230 miles +/-) in the Scottish Highlands. 17 days with endless rain (+/-). I had a Mountain Equipment jacket and Rab non-goretex pants/trousers. Temperatures were mild. Can't imagine trying to wear wool (other than the smartwool t-shirt/fullsleeve tops I did wear). The GTX did wonderfully. I would never wear GTX for trail running, for the reason you highlight. But then for trail running, short of a torrential downpour with cool/cold temps., I doubt I would wear anything waterproof at all. It's a fair point that with venting, PU might be much better today than the PU shells of my youth, which were totally unvented.
boc 4y ago
Seems like you’re painting with a very broad brush. Ultralight 3L jackets like the Arc’teryx Alpha SL breath way, way better than a standard rain jacket. I actually A/B tested a standard 2L rain jacket vs the Alpha SL in hard rain while working hard and it was no competition. I was clammy and sweaty in the 2L rain jacket in about 90 seconds. I worked over 30 minutes in the Alpha and never got overly warm, and was totally dry. When you’re mountaineering, sweat is really bad news. There’s a reason people wear $600 shells instead of $10 ponchos in the mountains.
- Dah00n 4y ago
  >When you’re mountaineering, sweat is really bad news Both messages above already agreed that in these situations it make sense. Sounds to me that you are arguing while agreeing :)

by _yb2s 4y ago

PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago

My guess is that you do not live in a climate that resembles, say, the British Isles. Goretex was a total game changer in these environments (and as noted by other commenters, similarly in the PNW in N.America). > If it's not raining you'll be way more comfortable with plain fabric, especially wool. If it is raining, you'll be just as comfortable in a plastic raincoat (especially polyurethane) with pit zips, and you will stay dry a lot longer in a heavy pour. I grew up wearing both, and then later added waxed cotton. Sorry, just ick. You can have my goretex jackets (Arcteryx, Berghaus, Mountain Equipment) when you pry them from the fingers of my not-so-cold, only-slightly-wet dead hands.

_yb2s 4y ago
I am from the PNW and do a ton of hiking in the rain, this is how I came to have such a poor opinion of goretex. I’ll add that I sweat too much on a hard hike for goretex to keep up, which could be a physiological difference that makes it not work for me. Sweat will literally be pouring out the bottom of the shell. For the light constant rain in the PNW, wool with the natural lanolin intact will keep me dry all day with incredible breathability. There are a few companies that make high end wool based gear. I’m also curious if you’ve actually tried a modern higher end polyurethane shell (not PVC) that has well designed vents all over it, or are you just talking about old fashioned PVC “oilskins” which lack good vents?
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  A couple of years ago, I did the Cape Wrath Trail (230 miles +/-) in the Scottish Highlands. 17 days with endless rain (+/-). I had a Mountain Equipment jacket and Rab non-goretex pants/trousers. Temperatures were mild. Can't imagine trying to wear wool (other than the smartwool t-shirt/fullsleeve tops I did wear). The GTX did wonderfully. I would never wear GTX for trail running, for the reason you highlight. But then for trail running, short of a torrential downpour with cool/cold temps., I doubt I would wear anything waterproof at all. It's a fair point that with venting, PU might be much better today than the PU shells of my youth, which were totally unvented.

boc 4y ago

Seems like you’re painting with a very broad brush. Ultralight 3L jackets like the Arc’teryx Alpha SL breath way, way better than a standard rain jacket. I actually A/B tested a standard 2L rain jacket vs the Alpha SL in hard rain while working hard and it was no competition. I was clammy and sweaty in the 2L rain jacket in about 90 seconds. I worked over 30 minutes in the Alpha and never got overly warm, and was totally dry. When you’re mountaineering, sweat is really bad news. There’s a reason people wear $600 shells instead of $10 ponchos in the mountains.

Dah00n 4y ago
>When you’re mountaineering, sweat is really bad news Both messages above already agreed that in these situations it make sense. Sounds to me that you are arguing while agreeing :)