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I'm European, and never in my life have I been so embarrassed of Europe.

rendall 4y ago
Speaking as an American, I assure you, don't be embarrassed about anything. This article is terrible, not Europe. Its author should be embarrassed.
- europeanguy 4y ago
  I didn't actually read the article. I was responding to parent - that's exactly how I've been feeling about this :-( > So to be clear, Europe has pursued its own protectionist economic policies for decades, neglected their military funding, and pursued energy policy that made them extremely reliant on known bad actor Russia, all while poopoo-ing the US, and now that the chickens are coming home to roost they are blaming the US for it?
  - _nalply 4y ago
    Don't fall for retrospective bias. I agree, Europe should have acted when it became clear that Putin is no saint (to be euphemistic), but Russian gas was cheap. It was a trade, give us your energy cheap and we shut up. Europe profited, households and industry had real savings, and Russia profited, invaluable money and power (especially the latter should have made Europe think, but again, retrospective bias). In other words, Europe and Russia both had gains for a long time. Now the dreams have crashed.
    - europeanguy 4y ago
      > Europe profited, households and industry had real savings (...) But you see, this is part of my disappointment with European decision makers. Yeah, great, Europe "profited" in a financial and standards of living sense. But what these people seem to miss (but the Americans and Russians know very well) is that there's a harder tier of power above finance, which is military power. Sure, it's great having good GDP, but if your neighbor has more tanks and resents you because 50% of their population wants to be you[1] then your savings and finance don't matter much. Unless big brother America comes to the rescue, as they're doing, at which point parent's comment has a lot of truth in it... [1] 50% is made up, but it's a lot.
  - rendall 4y ago
    Meh. "Europe" as you know is not a monolith. The paragraph is as meaningless as insisting that "Asia" has a problem with energy policy. Russia's neighbors like the Baltics + Poland + Finland have been warning Germany and France about all of this for decades, and their domestic energy and military policies have taken all of this into account. The EU center of power is shifting towards these countries as a result. So, maybe be a little bit embarrassed if you're German or French but only a little :)

Speaking as an American, I assure you, don't be embarrassed about anything. This article is terrible, not Europe. Its author should be embarrassed.

europeanguy 4y ago
I didn't actually read the article. I was responding to parent - that's exactly how I've been feeling about this :-( > So to be clear, Europe has pursued its own protectionist economic policies for decades, neglected their military funding, and pursued energy policy that made them extremely reliant on known bad actor Russia, all while poopoo-ing the US, and now that the chickens are coming home to roost they are blaming the US for it?
- _nalply 4y ago
  Don't fall for retrospective bias. I agree, Europe should have acted when it became clear that Putin is no saint (to be euphemistic), but Russian gas was cheap. It was a trade, give us your energy cheap and we shut up. Europe profited, households and industry had real savings, and Russia profited, invaluable money and power (especially the latter should have made Europe think, but again, retrospective bias). In other words, Europe and Russia both had gains for a long time. Now the dreams have crashed.
  - europeanguy 4y ago
    > Europe profited, households and industry had real savings (...) But you see, this is part of my disappointment with European decision makers. Yeah, great, Europe "profited" in a financial and standards of living sense. But what these people seem to miss (but the Americans and Russians know very well) is that there's a harder tier of power above finance, which is military power. Sure, it's great having good GDP, but if your neighbor has more tanks and resents you because 50% of their population wants to be you[1] then your savings and finance don't matter much. Unless big brother America comes to the rescue, as they're doing, at which point parent's comment has a lot of truth in it... [1] 50% is made up, but it's a lot.
- rendall 4y ago
  Meh. "Europe" as you know is not a monolith. The paragraph is as meaningless as insisting that "Asia" has a problem with energy policy. Russia's neighbors like the Baltics + Poland + Finland have been warning Germany and France about all of this for decades, and their domestic energy and military policies have taken all of this into account. The EU center of power is shifting towards these countries as a result. So, maybe be a little bit embarrassed if you're German or French but only a little :)