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Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it. Intelligence operations is a thing and you can't start genocidin

Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it. Intelligence operations is a thing and you can't start genociding just because you sucked at basic intelligence work in neighbouring countries.

yucky 4y ago
> Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it. They did, which is how they ended up taking Crimea.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Is there evidence of this coup?
  - yucky 4y ago
    Assuming that you're asking this in good faith and would like to read more from reliable sources, here are a handful of them from across the political spectrum: "Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call" - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 "The CIA And FBI Are Reportedly Advising Ukraine As Pro-Russia Separatists Spread Across The Country" - https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and-fbi-reportedly-advising-ukraine-2014-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and-fbi-reportedly-advis... "Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show" - https://pandodaily.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/ https://pandodaily.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-u... Our use of CIA/State Dept Tech Camp to help foment revolution, video posted by US embassy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIoBUDuL3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIoBUDuL3U (also see this for background on how we use the program elsewhere: https://www.fastcompany.com/1744389/hillary-clintons-senior-tech-advisor-talks-radical-global-citizenship https://www.fastcompany.com/1744389/hillary-clintons-senior-... "Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change”" - https://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142 https://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-... "How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine" - https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go... "In the rapidly worsening Ukraine fiasco, the U.S. is reaping exactly what it sowed" - https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-ukraine-fiasco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/ https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-uk... "A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War" - https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia... "The 2014 coup in Ukraine" - https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine "The United States Is Reaping What It Sowed in Ukraine" - https://progressive.org/latest/us-reaping-sowed-in-ukraine-benjamin-davies-220201/ https://progressive.org/latest/us-reaping-sowed-in-ukraine-b... "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault" - https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-t...
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      5 days ago, same repetitive junk pushing the same deceptive political take: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33681030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33681030
      - yucky 4y ago
        Rather than stalking my comments which is against the rules of this site, you could instead just reply to the content of the sources I provided. They are legitimate and credible. If you dispute any of the actual content, please cite and provide sources and reasons.
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        There is no point in giving good faith rebuttals in reply to rhetoric that wasn't good faith and seeking understanding in the first place. A different user summed that up earlier, I think in three words.
        themitigating 4y ago
        I started on another thread here
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        I respect you for doing the work, and you should definitely keep a copy for next time, but it is pretty much what I expected: the "balanced start" from "across the political spectrum" is expected to impress us into nodding along, and never to hold up to close inspection. Which of course it does not. It's the bullshit asymmetry principle at work: even if you do refute, you have been bogged down wasting time defending on that. It is a confidence trick, as the idea that a popular uprising against an unpopular government "must be the US's fault" is inherently laughable, even before we saw how hard the Ukrainian people have since fought to keep what they won then. > "sugar words" to entice you to believe them. George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Q, Pax Americana, deep forces, dark forces 2 Ah. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that it's that basic. Will you convince the parent poster? Of course not. Here they are 7-8 months ago, banging the same drum: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30880343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30880343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30651712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30651712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30624560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30624560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30677945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30677945 This is why debating this account is a waste of time. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    FYI, the account that you are replying to has a very long track record of pushing this talking point (and other crank opinions), so do not think that you are engaging in a good faith discussion with someone who can be convinced (1) - if they could be, it would have happened long ago. They're here to push that opinion into the public sphere. That account was even banned from posting for a while (2), thankfully. Why it was allowed back, I do not know. 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33679821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33679821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32990026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32990026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314574 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32323579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32323579
    - klqwant 4y ago
      The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation, is used informally and not in a literal sense. It does not mean that the U.S. installed a military junta. It means that U.S. officials interfered in the Maidan revolution and picked favorites. How much influence they had is questionable, but they were there. If you think that is a crank opinion, the BBC is a crank outlet.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        > The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation That account has in fact introduced the word "coup" with reference to Ukraine, many times over in conversations. And you're right, it does carry with it the ugly, false and deceptive connotations of "installed a military junta against the wishes of the people". Not to imply that they always "introduce" it. In fact, if you say it, they probably pop up like Beetlejuice for the opportunity to launch into the shpiel again. You are again correct that this conversation appears to be one of those times.

yucky 4y ago

> Even if US/CIA did push a coup in Ukraine, Russia should have foreseen it and counter acted it. They did, which is how they ended up taking Crimea.

themitigating 4y ago
Is there evidence of this coup?
- yucky 4y ago
  Assuming that you're asking this in good faith and would like to read more from reliable sources, here are a handful of them from across the political spectrum: "Ukraine crisis: Transcript of leaked Nuland-Pyatt call" - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26079957 "The CIA And FBI Are Reportedly Advising Ukraine As Pro-Russia Separatists Spread Across The Country" - https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and-fbi-reportedly-advising-ukraine-2014-5 https://www.businessinsider.com/cia-and-fbi-reportedly-advis... "Pierre Omidyar co-funded Ukraine revolution groups with US government, documents show" - https://pandodaily.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-ukraine-revolution-groups-with-us-government-documents-show/ https://pandodaily.com/2014/02/28/pierre-omidyar-co-funded-u... Our use of CIA/State Dept Tech Camp to help foment revolution, video posted by US embassy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIoBUDuL3U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpIoBUDuL3U (also see this for background on how we use the program elsewhere: https://www.fastcompany.com/1744389/hillary-clintons-senior-tech-advisor-talks-radical-global-citizenship https://www.fastcompany.com/1744389/hillary-clintons-senior-... "Washington Was Behind Ukraine Coup: Obama admits that US “Brokered a Deal” in Support of “Regime Change”" - https://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-coup-obama-admits-that-us-brokered-a-deal-in-support-of-regime-change/5429142 https://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-was-behind-ukraine-... "How and why the U.S. Government Perpetrated the 2014 Coup in Ukraine" - https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/ https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-go... "In the rapidly worsening Ukraine fiasco, the U.S. is reaping exactly what it sowed" - https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-ukraine-fiasco-the-us-is-reaping-exactly-what-it-sowed/ https://www.salon.com/2022/02/02/in-the-rapidly-worsening-uk... "A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War" - https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea https://jacobin.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia... "The 2014 coup in Ukraine" - https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine https://www.wsws.org/en/topics/event/2014-coup-ukraine "The United States Is Reaping What It Sowed in Ukraine" - https://progressive.org/latest/us-reaping-sowed-in-ukraine-benjamin-davies-220201/ https://progressive.org/latest/us-reaping-sowed-in-ukraine-b... "Why the Ukraine Crisis Is the West’s Fault" - https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-t...
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
    5 days ago, same repetitive junk pushing the same deceptive political take: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33681030 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33681030
    - yucky 4y ago
      Rather than stalking my comments which is against the rules of this site, you could instead just reply to the content of the sources I provided. They are legitimate and credible. If you dispute any of the actual content, please cite and provide sources and reasons.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        There is no point in giving good faith rebuttals in reply to rhetoric that wasn't good faith and seeking understanding in the first place. A different user summed that up earlier, I think in three words.
      - themitigating 4y ago
        I started on another thread here
        SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
        I respect you for doing the work, and you should definitely keep a copy for next time, but it is pretty much what I expected: the "balanced start" from "across the political spectrum" is expected to impress us into nodding along, and never to hold up to close inspection. Which of course it does not. It's the bullshit asymmetry principle at work: even if you do refute, you have been bogged down wasting time defending on that. It is a confidence trick, as the idea that a popular uprising against an unpopular government "must be the US's fault" is inherently laughable, even before we saw how hard the Ukrainian people have since fought to keep what they won then. > "sugar words" to entice you to believe them. George Soros, Hillary Clinton, Q, Pax Americana, deep forces, dark forces 2 Ah. I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that it's that basic. Will you convince the parent poster? Of course not. Here they are 7-8 months ago, banging the same drum: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30880343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30880343 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30651712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30651712 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30624560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30624560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30677945 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30677945 This is why debating this account is a waste of time. When someone shows you who they are, believe them.
- SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
  FYI, the account that you are replying to has a very long track record of pushing this talking point (and other crank opinions), so do not think that you are engaging in a good faith discussion with someone who can be convinced (1) - if they could be, it would have happened long ago. They're here to push that opinion into the public sphere. That account was even banned from posting for a while (2), thankfully. Why it was allowed back, I do not know. 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33679821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33679821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314627 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32990026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32990026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314574 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32314574 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32323579 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32323579
  - klqwant 4y ago
    The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation, is used informally and not in a literal sense. It does not mean that the U.S. installed a military junta. It means that U.S. officials interfered in the Maidan revolution and picked favorites. How much influence they had is questionable, but they were there. If you think that is a crank opinion, the BBC is a crank outlet.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
      > The word coup, which user "yucky" hasn't introduced in this conversation That account has in fact introduced the word "coup" with reference to Ukraine, many times over in conversations. And you're right, it does carry with it the ugly, false and deceptive connotations of "installed a military junta against the wishes of the people". Not to imply that they always "introduce" it. In fact, if you say it, they probably pop up like Beetlejuice for the opportunity to launch into the shpiel again. You are again correct that this conversation appears to be one of those times.